State or private from age 4 to 7?

[chipmunkswhereareyou]

State or private dilemma.
For the 4 to 7 phase (i.e. the equivalent of pre-prep), we have the choice of a local state primary with a class size of 30 or a non-selective private prep with a class size of 16 at a cost of around £10k per year(both schools say they have one classroom assistant in addition to the main teacher).
We can afford this but of course in the current financial climate there?s always the risk of job losses which would make things more difficult (although we could ride out a short period of unemployment).
The private prep has better facilities but is three miles away, whereas the local primary is a 10 minute walk.
The other consideration is that we would probably look to move him to a private prep at 7+ if he were at the state primary.

State if it's a good school purely for the social. We had this dilemma and went state because it's at the end of our road and most of the children live within walking distance. It's the most wonderful experience for a small boy to have all his friends withing spitting distance and to have lots of impromptu playdates, knocking on doors and running to school together, not to mention meeting friends randomly at unexpected times. It fosters a really lovely sense of community plus no sitting in the car in the rush hour.

I have an outgoing child who seems so far to find work easy so don't have issues with a class of 30, if I didn't then perhaps I would think differently.

I think it also depends on the prep school (and subsequent school) you have in mind as well. If you are thinking about somewhere hugely academic and competitive then you probably want to start the hothousing at age 4. If that's not what you have in mind, I think there are vacancies later on -there's a prep I know in Battersea where the number of kids falls dramatically in the upper school, because children move to schools where they can stay till they are 18 - quite apart from the moving/debt/divorce vacancies. I'm confident this is the same in similar preps elsewhere in London. I don't know where you are.

There is also the child to consider, dare I say it? DS1 went to the nursery of said prep school aged 3, and hated it because there was too much work and not enough play. He's been much happier in the state sector. I'm a lot more relaxed about making a 5yo do dull writing and stuff than I was with a 3yo. But we have friends who send their child to exactly the same prep and she is delighted by all the dull writing and stuff, can't get enough of it.

It depends on your child. I chose a private school for my 4 year old dd, who has just started reception because I think she will do much better in a class of 16 than a class of 32.

Since starting a month ago, she is reading and writing very well (I never did any work with her at home). I personally think it is worth every penny, but then I live in an area where the state school perform below average, and where the pastoral care is often almost non-existent so I felt like I had hobson's choice.

It is such a personal thing, though that you have to make the decision based on what you believe would be best for your child.

If you have the money, and no conviction against independent schools why wait?

Chipmunks, are you me?
this is exactly my dilemma - down to wanting to move my dd at seven. Did I post in my sleep? I will watch this thread with interest.
ATM I am inclined to state and the state arguers on this thread are the more persuasive, so far.
I am swayed by the have friends nearby argument and saving all of us the stress of a school run for a few more years. The extra cash will be handy too! I think you can organise swimming lessons, music lessons etc easily at this age to make up for any facilities the state school may lack.
But even though I've more or less made up my mind I am fretting a ridiculous amount. I am just about to ring a mother at the school to canvas her opinion and am going in to see the head next week to ask a few questions about how they handle classes of 30. If both reassure me I think it's a done deal.
I do worry about will she fall behind/never get a place at the school I like at seven/end up selling the Big Issue but I think I need to get a grip. I think (hope) with a bit of parental help and a lively atmosphere at home you can get a bright child through a 7+ fine (I know several kids from the school I have in mind have moved on to v academic schools) and as you say I think a lot of the it's impossible to get in to our school stuff is marketing. I went to two allegedly very academic schools, very hard to get into and you wouldn't believe how many dimwits had slipped through the net

I am also thinking about this at the moment

The saving of £40K per child is weighing heavily on my mind

One aspect to take into account is that entry into prep school at 7+ or 8+ is competitive and they have proper entrance exams. I have friends who did it and their sons had to be tutored. In order to do well at these exams the boys had to be very mature. They were way ahead of my son who was at a non-selective prep school from yr 1.

you're right lazymum
But if that's your worry (is mine), you can get a tutor and still save ££££s and have local friends etc

I was scared off by class sizes, but in our local school space was a premium too. If there is plenty of space and their not shackled to desks then there shouldn't be a problem. I opted for private for many other different reasons other than class size and we have lots of friends in the local community it hasn't made a blind bit of difference to that side of things.

damn 'they're' I mean!

Similar dilemma here. Think we will go for local primary for the following reasons;

1. It's walking distance from home so logistics much easier (we both work)

1. I want DS to get to know the kids in the village

1. State primary has ofsted outstanding rating

1. Both schools are CofE but local primary seems less overt (I don't believe schools should have a religious affiliation)

1. Although the fees would not pose a problem, why spend the money unless you need to?

On the downside, the state school is less flexible than the private school so we'll have fun and games managing diaries and the range of activities is not so broad. Still, on balance, think we'll stick with the local primary to start with.

my brother's dcs at state primary know everyone in the area, walking down their road they stop every five seconds to say hello to someone
It's lovely
They also appear to be turning out all right

I think it really depends on your local private school too and their philosophy and ethos. Our local secondary school is first rate so I think unless dd wins a scholarship or excels in a subject that isn't taught there we'll go to state comp.

We have done both.

DS1 started in state and moved to private in year 2, because we moved house. DS2 has been in private all the time.

DS2 is slightly ahead academically but I think this is only because he is cleverer than DS1. DS1 certainly had no problems going from state to private and has been Mr Average all along. Took him a little time to get settled in and make friends but that would have been the case anywhere. His current school thinks he'll get into our first choice private secondary.

I now regret not sending DS2 to a state school initially too because of the massive amount of money we would have saved. Particularly at the moment when we are having to tighten our belts and school fees are a massive drain on resources.

In your situation I would definitely go for state for the early years, particularly as it is in walking distance. Your child will make lots of good local friends (and so will you) which will be maintained when you change to private school at 7+. Your child will also benefit from being in a more diverse social group.

I have just moved dd1 from state to private for Y3 - no difference in maths and English but I wished I had moved her a year ago. She is up to speed on her Maths and English but is behind on joined up writing, libary skills etc. She now loves all the extra lessons like dancing,sport,DT,chess and drama. Same type of people at both schools except that most people at the private school seem to have older cars and less holidays than the ones at the state school (probably due to the fees)!

If you have the money then I believe there is only one choice.

I think it depends on the feel of the school to be honest. My DS in reception of pre-prep is august born and in a class of 18 as opposed to 32 in local state school. I was worried about how he'd cope in a larger class to be honest.

But main thing was i liked the school the best of the ones i looked at and also lots of people from surrounding villages go there so still has localish friends.

Do what your heart tells you. Don't ask here as you will be drawn into the State v Private argument and it is such a personal decision to make, no-one on here can make it for you.

If the private school is a VERY good private school (do you know any parents of students there?) and you can afford it and it is truly what you and your DH want for your child, then go for it.

I had to remove DD1 from her Independent School this year (at Year 1) due to finances and place her in the Local (outstanding) State. She has gone from a class of 15 to 30 but she is thriving. If you get superb teaching in the State school, the class size doesn't really come in it. You could get dire teaching in the Independent School, just because they have less pupils doesn't equal better teaching.

I think the problem is my heart is saying private and DH's is staying state until 7. And then we are getting in a tizz about trying to analyse what would be best. It's driving me mad!

Pgwithnumber3 can I CAT you about changing from private to state for financial reasons - long (not so relevant for this thread) I will explain in email!

If you know that you want your dc to definitly attend private school at some point in the future, you need to compare the academic levels of the two schools (state vs private) in the same year at year 2/3. IYSWIM.

If you are confident that the State school will offer the same level of education and your dc will have a competitive chance in an entrance exam, then go for state.

Ask what the private schools expect at 7+ entry. Our ds is being prepared at his school for numeracy, literacy and verbal reasoning papers.

If they get through that level, they are then interviewed. All this is practised at his school but would not be at his local state school.

It would be quite difficult to get tutors to be able to cover all this work outside of school, imho. (especially if you consider that many pupils from private schools are also tutored, so you would always be playing catch-up).

Long and short of it is that it depends on how academic your local school and the private school are.

chipmunks you are most welcome to CAT me.

Personally, the idea of 'pre-prep' - and of children being geared up for academic excellence at such a young age - makes me shudder.

chipmunk, I don't mean to undermine peoples advice to you on here as obviously (being a member myself!) I know that Mumsnet can be invaluable with regard to a lot of parenting issues but on reading some threads regarding education, they become very silly.

I have had some superb advice on here when we had to remove DD from her Independent school though but you will always get members who abhor private education and it is not their decision where your DS goes.

Not all pre preps are designed to gear children up for academia at such a young age. DD's school, in the pre prep department, appeas to be far more relaxed, for more fun and playing, far less difficult spellings and homework levels, etc than many of the state schools I hear of on MN. Yes they get excellent academic results, but the foundations are not heavy handed or pushed at infant level, in no way at all.

But why on earth would the OP ask if she disn't want a range of (honest) opinions? @pgwithnumber3

I don't 'abhor private education', fwiw. I do think that gearing up very young children for academic excellence - like many, many pre-prep and prep schools do - is a ridiculous, meaningless piece of snobbery and a complete waste of money. If you do have the money for private ed,
I think it might make a lot more sense to spend it later on down the line.

My opinion. The OP did actually ask for opinions, didn't she? And not just a nice pat on the back and a cup of tea.

Our kids are in private prep and were about a year ahead in curiculum than their friends at state school by yr3. The whole educational experience is very different. That said we have just moved schools to a prep that is acedemically less pushy and it is bliss, one DS even won a scholarship. If you are going to move them anyway think very carefully about whether they will thrive or struggle as the demands on kids at private school go up rapidly from about y4 onwards. One of our friends tried to move both his kids at yr3 and yr 5 and only one passed the entrance exam