surely this is evidence that state funded faith schools are run by total nutters

[Reallytired]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7633761.stm

I cannot understand why a school should not want to be involved in the vacination programme against cervial cancer. It may be true that the HPV is sexually transmitted, but a good catholic wife could end up with cervial cancer if her husband has an affair.

Prehaps the catholic school governors think that cervial cancer is a well deserved punishment, in the same way that a few strange people thought that homosexuals deserved AIDS.

Should such people be allowed run state funded schools. Especially as the mainstream Catholic Church doesn't object to the vaccine.

And as with every other vaccine they will be. Research is very promising in short and long term - even 6 years on.

All the MEDICAL evidence says risks are very limited. It's one of the safest vaccines ever.

People don't usualyl have the same objections to other vaccinations (except MMR because of a scare story which erupted from faulty and inaccurate research).

Obviusly if you and your dd personally don't want it, that's your choice but all the medical evidence says it's a good thing.

There won't be an end to cervial smears. Lots of women are bad about getting cervial smears anyway because of embrassment. Especially women who haven't had children.

I am 100% guilty I never had a cervial smear before my son was born. I am sure I was not the only one.

Fortunately I'm happy that by the time my DD is the right age all of those questions will have been answered. I'm less convinced that they've been answered already, and I do worry that the attitude of "if it prevents even a few women getting cervical cancer then it's worth having" brushes them under the carpet.

And I think that even if it doesn't have serious side-effects, if it has painful side-effects and is being given to twelve-year-olds then it's reasonable of the school not to want a whole year-group of distressed girls on its hands at once three times in a six-month period. It's a school staffed by teachers, not a hospital or a social care facility.

Really? If your school didn't give the injection on school premises, wrote to parents to tell them to organise the immunisations themselves and passed on your details to the health authority to make sure you didn't just fall through the net, but then your parents couldn't be arsed to get you vaccinated then you'd sue the school? That's a fairly major case of buck-passing, IMO.

From NHSdirect

"Research has shown that the HPV vaccine's protection is effective for four-and-a-half years after completing the three dose course. Beyond that, it is not known how long the vaccine's protection will last."

Don't buy that at all Portandlemon. Vaccinations are a little pin prick for most people. This one is not more 'distressing' than any other and considerably less distressing than cervical cancer or pre cancer. Can vouch for that!

This school has never objected to any other vaccination on its premises. Go figure.

And I would have very happily fainted, been sick or even felt unwell for a couple of days rather than the huge amount of distress, anxiety, embarrasment, pain, surgery etc of stage 3 pre cancer.

Fivecandles - I'm sorry to hear that you are going through this.
I hope you don't mind me asking but did you have regular smears done? Do you know for definite that this has been caused by one of the viruses that the vaccine protects against?
I am asking because I am trying to decide what to do for my dds.

The vaccine protects against the forms of HPV which lead to 70% of cervical cancers.

Yes, I had regular smear tests - more than the requisite in fact. The policy was (is?) that you after an abnormal smear you have a repeat smear and if it's still abnormal you are referred to hospital for colpolscopy, then a biopsy, then treatment. For me, in between the first abnormal smear and treatment the abnormality went to stage 3 (1 stp from cancer).

Pregnancy can affect whether you can be treated also and sometimes you are advised not to get pregnant until you've been treated and cleared.

For me it took a couple of years between first abnormal smear and treatment and several more smears and biopsies. Biopsies and treatment are not fun.

You then have to have regualr follow ups and then yearly smears for a few years until you revert to normal.

I then went on to have cervical erosion which required more treatment and could have jeopardised further pregnancies (as it was my dd2 was prem possibly because of cervical incompetence as a result of the surgery I'd had) because of the earlier treatment.

All of this stuff is very common and there are loads of threads begun by women with similar experiences.

So don't underestminate distress and risks of PRE cancer which won't even appear in stats for cervical cancer and I can't tell you how hapyp I am that my dds are very unlikely to go trhough what I've had to.

Haemorrhaged after one treatment as well which meant I was back into A & E and into threatre under a general to sort it out. The whole thing has been horrible and a huge source of anxiety over years.

Fivecandles - so yours could have been in the other 30% of causes? Did you have a long wait between your first abnormal smear and treatment? Or was yours a particularly aggressive form?

My mum had cervical cancer and was told that she must have had it at least 10years possibly a lot longer for it to have reached the stage it was at. She never had a smear test although strangely she always encouraged us to have one.

I have had an abnormal smear which fortunately had reverted by the next smear 6m later. I was kept on 6m smears for the next 2 tests and then one a year later before going back to the 3y.
I've also been treated for cervical erosion.

Sorry for all the questions. Obviously ignore if you find it too upsetting to talk about. I appreciate it's been a distressing experience for you.

I would rather DD had any vaccinations at a health centre or doctors personally. I think it makes more sense. School isn't really the idal environment.

WHy is that Hulababy. I would have thought it was the perfect environment. Huge catchment of teenage girls in one place. Easy to ensure pretty much all of them get the vaccine. Leave it to health centres and people will keep putting it off.

Justbecause - my experience of school (was teacher); I just don't think it is. I personally will try to take DD to a surgery for her jabs when the time comes. I think it is a better environment; more suited rather than taking place in a teachers office or hallway. Also a lot of people, not just children, have a lot of anxieties over injections. The crowded room, the long queues, etc don't help with that.

Not new at all lapin. No drug can be licensed in this country until it has been trialled and it has been proven that the benefits outweight the risks which need to be minimal. It has been used in the U.S for years. It was probably about 2 years between my first abnormal smear and treatment. Had to wait for results from 2nd smear then for colp appt then results then results from biopsy then was mistakenly told by GP receptionist was clear so got pregnant then had to wait till after pregnancy etc. To clarify, I haven't had cancer just pre cancer. 2 biopsies then loop cone biopsy afte which I haemorrahaged so then a general to stop the bleeding. Blood transfusion. Not good.

Safe sex message not good enough. You can use condoms every time you have sex but still get HPV from contact with rest of genitals.

Don't get why school is not considered appropriate.

At my work they're currently offering flu vaccinations and thy have a high take up.

Wish more medical services were offered in the workplace (blood pressure etc). Actually LESS risk of MRSA etc OUTSIDE of hosptital and GPs.

God, I'm terrified of what I'll catch at my GPs what with people vomitting and coughing etc.

If parents want to take their kids out of school to go to the GPs fine. I'd rather my kids lined up with the rest and got it over and done with just like they would with an eye test etc so it's not a big deal.

As for the risks they're minimal and frankyl much less than your average school trip or risk or choking/ allergic reaction in the canteen.

Don't think your GP would thank you either. Except it wouldn't be the GP, it would be the practice nurse who, oh yes, would b exactly the same person (with the same training) as would be administering it in the school.

She would have training in anaphylacitc shocik and same drugs avialble as she would in surgery.

Obviously parents should ahve choice to opt out but it's not up to headtacher/ board of governors or a minority of parents to say that the school shouldn't offer it to parents and kids who do watn it.

Hulababy - I'm a school nurse currently involved in delivering the HPV vaccine programme in a number of schools. I can reassure you that we work closely with the schools and each other to ensure that we provide a safe, calm environment with privacy for the injections. I can't speak for all schools but we use a hall rather than an office (too small) and certainly don't do vaccines in a hallway! We stagger the girls so they aren't all hanging about and getting too anxious, and have an in-and-out flow system where possible so that they don't wind each other up!

Before this job I worked in a GP surgery and I actually find vaccinating in a school no different to doing it in a surgery; in some ways it's better - more room, a clinic specifically for this vaccine so no interruptions, and plenty of us there with the necessary skills and back up should something need doing (yesterday we had 6 qualified nurses and 3 HCSW doing the vaccines; in primary care I would do a baby immunisation clinic with me, an HCSW and an admin lady.)

I hope people realise that we are doing this HPV campaign with some planning and targeted training - we don't just walk in to a school, stab girls with the vaccine then clear off again.

Yes, juule but htere's a 7/10 chance that I wouldn't have had to go through wahtat I did if I'd had the vaccine. Wouldn't hesitate for my dds.

Helpful post Sidge. Have you had to deal with any side effects yet? What trianing have you had for this?

Surprise surprise, the Catholic church has a problem with female sexuality.

Wish they'd just be honest about it, rather than pretending their objections are anything to do with safety. Isn't lying a sin?

Fivecandles - we have compulsory yearly resus and anaphylaxis training (paeds and adult but emphasis on paeds obviously) and have had to read a ton of bumph about the vaccine, stats, trials and possible side effects.

We've done a few hundred of the vaccines so far in our area and have had just one incident in school - a girl became flushed and dizzy. It wasn't anaphylaxis but was recorded as a significant event. We haven't had any other reactions reported back to us and we get copies of any adverse reaction reports.

Interestingly I have noticed that pale or redheaded girls seem to find it more painful than darker complectioned (?sp) girls, and they tell me that the vaccine does sting but it wears off quickly.

Thanks Sidge I find that reassuring. Couldn't the girl who was dizzy have become so because of anxiety rather than any sort of reaction to the drug itself? Certainly I've felt faint just having a blood test and once just when a consultant was talking to me about treatment and after having a local at the dentist. Sensitive soul me.

I think that was probably most likely - she probably had an adrenaline rush because of anxiety causing her symptoms, but as she was noticeably flushed and a bit shaky we dealt with it as if it were a reaction and recorded it so that next time we can keep an extra close eye on her.

It makes me laugh though that most of the girls coming in stressing about having an injection have got pierced ears! The vaccine hurts less than having your ears pierced that's for sure!

I think the whole row about this vaccine is bonkers! In what way is it different to vaccinating girls against Rubella so that it doesn't cause them problems in pregnancy (which was done while I was at school)?

I think this school is being very sensible.

There is a lot of controversy surrounding the HPV vaccines.

At the moment we don't actually know if they will prevent any or many cases of cervical cancer as it is WAY to early in the vaccine's life to have studied this. We won't know for decades if this thing works.

There are lots of concerns about how the vaccine may affect the HPV ecosystem with fears that even if the vaccine does reduce infection of the strains targeted, other strains will simply fill the vacuum.

There are also concerns (and evidence) that the vaccine can be dangerous for women who are already infected by one of the HPV strains targeted. It is possible to contract HPV through close but nonsexual contact like cuddling a child.

There is a lot to this, it is very complicated. There isn't much known about Cervarix the vaccine that is being used in the UK, but Gardasil, the Merck equivalent has built up a concerning number of reports of adverse events.

I think the way this vaccine is being marketed as a 'cancer vaccine' is misleading and dangerous. the info on the NHS website is dumbed down, misleading and in some parts very economical with the truth.

Here are a couple of links which examine the subject;

content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/359/8/861

www.judicialwatch.org/documents/2008/JWReportFDAhpvVaccineRecords.pdf

www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=7786&page=0

vaccineawakening.blogspot.com/2008/07/hpv-vaccine-victims-pile-up-15b-for.html

I appreciate that a lot of the info is concerned with Gardasil, I guess we could just shut our eyes and hope for the best that Cervarix is remarkably different.