Why do primary schools have such horrid uniforms ??

[mummyloveslucy]

When I was at primary school, there was a quite strict uniform of a white blows (not a PE top) a navy skirt and a navy v-necked jumper with a school tie. This was very smart and reasonably cheep, as you pay loads for those sweat shirts with the logo on and they just look slouchy. Somthing you'd ware for lazing around the house in.
When my daughter starts school, she'll wear a lovely white crisp blowse and a nice pinnafore, but it will unfortunatly be ruined by a chunky sweat shirt over the top. I don't think they are any more practicle than a cheeper wool jumper that looks smart.
People always complain about the cost of uniforms but I wouldn't mind paying for the jumper if it looked smart.

I think they both go back in history.
The ties will go back to the first girl's private schools which were copies of the boys schools except skirts instead of trousers and hats instead of caps.
Boys used to wear short trousers until they were about 12 or 13 and then they went into long trousers, I think this probably stopped in the early 60's.

I know.

So basically, girls wear ties to "allow" them to have an education - so that they can be "nearly as good as a boy"

And little boys wear shorts because at some indeterminate time in the past that's what they did.

ROFL! just had a mental picture of gangly ds in shorts, shirt and tie ....

God, I wish my DSs' school had a uniform. Save me time & mental energy, and would look SO much nicer on the school photos!

Both of my brothers wore shorts until they were 12. My mother remembers one of them crying with cold as he went to school in the snow. She says she has no idea why she didn't say "This is competely ridiculous" and insisting that he wore long trousers. She can possibly be excused because everybody was doing the same and shorts til 12 was the social norm. This is no longer the case - there is no excuse now.

dp was the same seeker - crying with cold in Yorkshire snow, walking miles to school. Insanity.

It just goes to show that schools should move with the times and not get stuck in a time warp!
Blazers for 5yr old could be the first to go-followed by ties for girls and all under 11yr olds.

I remember one boy at my infant school whose mum was German being made to wear thick ribbed woollen tights under his shorts (and this was the 1970s, so the shorts were short, none of your knee-length nonsense.

He went on to become a professional rugby player, so clearly not scarred for life, but still. [wince emoticon]

I think that the grown ups should be forced to wear similar clothes to the uniforms they have their children wear. Not just the teachers, but the parents too (those who choose schools with daft uniforms that is). So shorts in winter for the dads, and ties and boaters for the mums, and full suits for the teachers, with required "sensible" hair. Maybe they would think again

Very different views on this thread.

Reasons boys might wear shorts and ties... tradition - isn't tradition important? Won't they spend theirl ives in the city or whatever in special clothes and uniforms anyway, don't we all whatever professions we follow? And isn't school starting us on those paths? I would have thought there were masses of reasons why a school uniform is helpful. If they're going to wear ties as adults might as well start young. What about discipline and doing things that are awkward and looking smart? Those things matter. I don't think any of the boys in my sons' school have particular problems with the shorts and ties and when they turn 10 they move into long trousers anyway.

The blazers are great - they can fit all sorts of things in the pockets - just ge tout your William Brown books and look at what William put in his blazer pockets and compare what a poor state school child has in these ridiculous ugly common clothes that state school children wear. You don't even get a pocket in a sweat shirt so where do you put all your conkers and bits of string, and leaking ink pens? It's a different world isn't it, the class differences between some of us.

Er no, Xenia, it's not a world of difference, it's just different clothes. I think you're reading too much into it.

I know people who put up with poncey McPonce uniforms because they think the school is great; and people who put up with crappy sweatshirts because the school ditto.

I think most people choose the school first and then live with the uniform or lack thereof. I'm sure in the ritzier parts of the country there are people who chose schools on the basis of the William Brownishness of the uniform, but sounds like a fast track to a bad decision imo.

And over the last fortnight I've done so many secondary open days my eyes are starting to glaze, but I can confirm that the uniform or lack of does not correspond to the niceness of the school.

Our two top choice for ds will be uber-selective boys school with v. v. formal uniform, and a non-selective very funky comprehensive with no uniform at all (urban streetwear de rigeur, though). In between there were loads of schools with varying levels of smartness in their uniforms, but didn't really like any of them (uniforms or schools).

I'd never pick a school because of the uniform. I don't think anyone would. Xenia's right though, there are cultural differences. The idea of buying school uniform from a supermarket/high street shop seems alien to me because it's outside of my personal experience. I'm sure the idea of putting children in boaters and blazers seems just as alien to some people because it's outside of their personal experience.

Well for me both concepts are within my personal experience. I went to a poor working class school, a very expensive public school, and a fairly ordinary private school too. All of which had fairly formal uniforms. My children have experienced a no uniform school and a logo'd polo shirt type set up. Wider family have tried a variety of schools too. I have picked school ware from M&S, Adsa, John Lewis and snooty specialist shops. I am upper middle class in background and my dh is working class. The only time as an adult I have had to wear any type of uniform was as a shop assistant, and for my dh when he was a dustman and had to wear a reflective jacket. We both have had a variety of professional jobs.

I don't think that tradition is a good enough reason to do anything, and think the reason why private schools go for distinctive uniforms has more to do with marketing than any benefit for the students. Regarding preparation for work, why is it that so many schools (including many private schools) reserve their most complicated uniforms for their youngest children and have a no uniform rule for their sixth forms?

Oh, and plenty of state schools have formal uniforms with blazers. In my local area that includes the worst performing ones.

Really, you've never had to wear a suit? Just about everyone I know has a 'work wardrobe'. As for uniform, there's nothing wrong with the polo shirt type uniform, just as there's nothing wrong with the more traditional style. I don't think it takes much effort to undo a couple of shirt buttons and slip it over your head and loosen a tie to remove it. In fact, the shirts are sometimes the one thing that can be picked up cheaply elsewhere- there's no logo, unlike on polo shirts.

I love uniform because it cuts through all the crap about labels. Everyone has the same. As they get older, some sixth forms allow them to wear their own clothes (usually with restrictions) as an acknowledgement of their status. I think that the distinctive private school uniform thing is part branding, part tradition and part money. Usually there are a limited number of places you can obtain the uniform from. The schools get a nice sum! The blazers at my school were really made to last. I wore one for a year that had seen my mother's friend's daughter through two years, and that was then passed on to another girl!

OOh, and I loved my first school uniform. It was also the most traditional. I especially loved the tie. I may have removed the bobble from my winter hat when I was a little older and said that the dog ate it though .

I have a work wardrobe. It is full of carefully selected clothes that feel nice, are the right colour and fit my shape and charactor well. Not something I could say for any of my uniforms. I have an interview suit which I wear for interviews and big pesentations. Again I chose it and like it. Why children are not allowed such priveledges is beyond me. Oh yes, it is because they are children...

My DD would like to go to school dressed as a princess. My nephew would like to go in full EMO eye-makeup. My DH has to wear a suit every day, though he'd rather claim something creased from his 'clirty' pile, and where I worked, the dress code was dark blue/grey suits with blouses/shirts- for women- and no OTT jewellery.

Uniform clothing doesn't mean lack of individuality, it just means that you have to look a little deeper to see the individual. It also protects children from being judged on their parents clothes choices/budget.

Class differences?!

I can confirm that the children who attend the local state school in polyester sweatshirts are waaaaaaayyyyyy more middle class than those at the highly expensive prep school next door to us, although the private school children wear the full boater/cap/blazer/special winter coats/spring coats etc etc etc.

And I can also confirm that a £100 jumper and £37 school shirt do not translate into an increase in brain cells.

Anyway it's all good fun. I really don't think boys up to age 9 really do suffer for wearing shorts at all. If it's very cold they get to put their school sports track suits on at break in the snow etc and it's quite practical in the class room.

In general you will find private schools with slightly nicer uniform than state because it costs a bit more although many many private school parents buy the uniform second hand from the school second hand sales. What individual teenagers make of their uniform is fascinating too, how they individualise it etc.

Also there are stage school issues over this so strong the Government has stepped in. Some state schools wanting to attract only the richer middle class parent had been specifying rather expensive uniforms to put off the poor from applying and also the Office of Fair Trading looked into state schools specifying one shop for uniform supplies which had exclusive rights to that because it could be anti competitive and might mean parents pay too much.

i like uniform because it means that it cuts through the 'what do i wear' crisis in the morinings. But each of my 3 have their own little adjustments to it to make it 'theirs'. I remember turning over the waistband of my skirt in the late 1960's - thought it looked like twiggy! (she was trendy in those days btw) in my junior school all the boys wore shorts and did until 3rd year at secondary, so yr 9

I hate the fact though that we are forced to dress them in really horrid scratchy cheap (though in cost, expensive, eg for school blazer from one shop only) uniform.

No problem in it all coming from asda but hate the idea of the sweatshop conditions of the people/children on the indian sub continent that make it. If 2 shirts cost £3 how much do they get paid? is it a living wgae even there?

Hmmmm. I don't think most 9/10 year old boys would be happy walking down the average street wearing shorts, a blazer and a cap!

Tradition is all very well, but there is a time to move on.

My ds would have major problems wearing shorts in cold weather. He has never voluntarily worn shorts as school uniform because it's rarely warm enough in an English term time. He would be very very cold in shorts in winter - he has worn long johns under his school trousers. I would be very very unhappy at a school that thought this was a good idea. The days of Just William are long gone, I don't know why anyone would want their child look like they belonged in a different century.

I suspect en masse it's not an issue. Locally at say 4pm when the private schools are out there are about 4 at least boys schools private and 100% have shorts as the uniform at that age or younger (and only one has caps) and indeed we are not that far from Harrow school and those teenagers have to carry the straw boater between lessons.

If everyone around you is dressed like that you just accept it as the norm I suppose. Obviously Harrow with teenagers with special dress is even more unusual.

But my point above was we wear uniforms as we get older, not official ones but I've got inot taxis and the driver has said -you're a XXX or you'll see someone in the street and make a guesss about what they do so forming part of your tribe at a younger age, learning to wear what is appropriate for that group socialises you whether that's as part of the street gang or just the boy of the school is good for them