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Just wondering... how do you think the financial turmoil will affect private school applications this year?

503 replies

PrincessPeaHead · 18/09/2008 14:27

It was difficult enough to see who the hell could afford boarding fees of £8800 per term in a boom economy... now? Do you think there will be a big move from boarding to private day options (cheaper) or in fact also a big fall in private day applications as people try for grammars/use the good local comp ?

Just musing really.

OP posts:
Issy · 19/09/2008 16:19

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at OP's request

MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 19/09/2008 16:22

Deeply ironic that now posters are complaining that prep school puplis will be flooding the state schools and taking the places their DC are 'entitled to', whc=ilnormally the prevailing -dogma- wisdom in the education treads appears to be that parenst should all sedn tehri children to state schools to improve the standards by therir middleclassness. So Tesla - you will doubltless find many MNers telling you you should be grateful yours and others' 'oik' children will receive that extra civisiling benefit

teslagirl · 19/09/2008 16:36

1)Not sure I was 'complaining' or observing an inevitable knock-on effect of the 'borderline afforders' going state for secondary. The effect for ME PERSONALLY, note, is the possibility of my DS not getting a place at a specific comp which he might have otherwise because 2), yes, it HAS been besieged by droves of prep parents according to the admissions officer! Finally 3), Is 'tough poo' a private school term? I hadn't heard that amongst my oik children.

Anchovy · 19/09/2008 16:43

Hmm, teslagirl, but Winchester is a very strange catchment anyway I think. There has always been quite a lot of fluiditiy between the state and private schools, I think, partly because all of the state schools there are so good.

I think a lot of people move out of London down that way specifically for the good state schools and are often taking children from private London schools.

PrincessPeaHead · 19/09/2008 16:48

deepinlaundry, that is my impression. I'm sorry to hear about your dd. Any views on Headington?

Tesla - oh yes, the upper classes have dreadful language, didn't you know? Although many of them would have said tough titty. I personally never pass up the chance to say "poo"

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teslagirl · 19/09/2008 16:56

That is true enough, but there's no doubt (only from what the admissions officer told me!) that there do seem to be a lot more prep DCs applying at the comps this year. But there's a reason why Winchester doesn't have any middle of the road private secondaries, I suppose (ie not Winchester College or St Swithun's), but I've heard from a few hospital consultants that there's a lot less talk about 'King Eddy's' (private selective ex-grammar in Southampton with v. good results) than in previous years!

Now, I actually agree that in some ways, going private DOES potentially deprive a local state school of nice, middle class DCs from nice homes- perhaps not so much the case in Winchester where EVERYONE is middle-class (!)- it's just that I recognise that DC's in my DS's position will, sadly, have his chance of attending one of these excellent comps reduced.

It kind of goes to the heart of the inequality issues that increasingly dog our country, really. When we're in clover, the wealthy can desert our state schools which, in the case of the schools I'm talking about, get on with it, achieving excellent results and turning out a 'high quality product' (if you'll excuse the term!), but when the good times falter, the wealthy by dint of their house purchasing power, can mob the good state schools and thus further reduce the chances of the less well off.

It's a fact of life, I know.

deepinlaundry · 19/09/2008 17:01

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JJ · 19/09/2008 17:04

So how much are you taking into account pastoral care when choosing a secondary school? My son's in year 6 and I'm starting to think that a nice low key school would be great for him. The school he wants is very academic but does have a very friendly atmosphere. I'm not sure about other schools that are academic; I don't want a really pressured environment. Of course, angsting over which to choose might be pointless if he doesn't get in.

His primary school was chosen because it's non-selective and for it's pastoral care. I read once on here that someone chose their child's school for "when the shit hits the fan". That sums up how we chose it. (And said shit has hit fan and they've been fab. )

JJ · 19/09/2008 17:05

for its pastoral care, I mean

CountessDracula · 19/09/2008 17:05

pph
i am ver cross with you

CountessDracula · 19/09/2008 17:06

you have ignored my email

frogs · 19/09/2008 17:14

Blu, I don't think that's necessarily true. At all the grammar school open days there have been loads of kids from private schools looking round (and yes you can tell from the uniform, generally), and the prep schools do make a feature of how many places their pupils have been offered at said selective grammar schools. But from dd1's experience (and have heard similar from friends) loads of the prep-school parents end up sending their dc private at secondary even if they have grammar school offers. No idea whether that's because of better facilities, easier journey, smarter friends, or just because it's more within their comfort zone. But I would imagine a full-scale recession might weight that decision-making quite heavily.

LadyMuck · 19/09/2008 17:34

The dcs prep school have lots of boys applying to the Sutton grammars. Last year, of those who got a place, only a fifth took it up (and we're talking about Wilsons etc which does vey well in terms of league tables etc) whereas the others opted for independent day schools.

I think that there are a number of factors at play including a) despite stunning league table results the grammar schools have far fewer boys heading to Oxbridge and Russell Group unis, b) entry to the grammars is so competitive, if you get in then you have almost certainly got a scholarship to one of the local independents, and c) the independents offer iGSCEs, IB, foreign languages options as well as loads of paid-for extras that the grammars don't. So even if a boy would come out with 10 A*-B GCSEs from both schools, parents are still willing to pay for things such as being able to study the syllabus in a foreign language say.

That said I suspect that there will be some parents who now go for Grammar for 5 years and then head to the independent sector for 6th form.

One of the grammars has recently started a 13+ entry as well which is interesting as at our prep you have to decide whether you are opting for 13+ by year 5 so would usually be bypassing grammars altogether.

Anna8888 · 19/09/2008 17:35

AuldAlliance - please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that the CAFEP was for collège/lycée only?

My stepsons are at state school in Neuilly and their teachers are in the main startingly pleasingly youthful, so haven't spent zillions of years paying dues in a grim banlieue.

bossykate · 19/09/2008 17:41
Anna8888 · 19/09/2008 18:04

AuldAlliance - as far as I can see the CAFEP is not only for secondary school but, more importantly, for catholic schools... so no, that would not be relevant to my daughter's school...

LadyMuck · 19/09/2008 18:08

It is why I remain sceptical about a lot of the league tables. I don't know for sure but I guess that some of the disparity will be the quality of the subjects (an ICT qualification "worth" 4 GCSEs isn't really the equivalent of GCSEs in Eng Lit, History, Physics and French say), but I also think that some of the careers and uni guidance given is poor in comparison with independents. You certainly have very bright boys in each and if anything the entrance standard is higher for the grammars. Perhaps the independent schools do more to create, at least on paper, the rounded candiates that universities might be looking for.

mrsshackleton · 19/09/2008 18:13

am interested in the oxford schools discussion as I went to oxford high, but 10 million years ago so am not going to advise on its current state
But in those days headington was definitely the school for the nice but dim girls, one of those private schools I always view as pointless all about snobbery and wanting to allow your dd to meet other nice gels and no academic benefits whatsoever. But that all may have changed
FWIW Magdalen where my brother went is a brilliant school academically but also turns out imo the nicest, less stuffy, kindest boys imaginable. A great school

deepinlaundry · 19/09/2008 18:24

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mrsshackleton · 19/09/2008 19:03

deepinlaundry that is just the kind of thing I can imagine a certain type of oxford high girl saying - that would be on my list of downsides for the place.
Newcollege is lovely that was my brother's prep school! Delightful place

PrincessPeaHead · 19/09/2008 19:37

god deepinlaundry, I've barely heard of a school having a single case against it let alone multiple. OH definitely off my list.

Headington got 93% As and Bs at A level last year. I know A levels are a piece of piss these days etc etc but that strikes me as OK...!

The other possibility is St Helen & St Kats, any viesws?. Not interested in RSA as I really don't do catholicism.

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PrincessPeaHead · 19/09/2008 19:42

oh poo cd, have just found and answered your mail. sorry!

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AuldAlliance · 19/09/2008 20:26

Anna, the CAFEP (Concours d?accès à des listes d?aptitude aux fonctions d?enseignement des établissements d?enseignement privés
du second degré sous contrat, a catchy title that) is for private schools under contract with the state. It's not specifically a concours for teaching in Catholic schools, though admittedly the vast majority of those private schools (95%) are Catholic.

But where I am wrong is that the CAFEP doesn't apply to the primary system, since it's an identical concours to the CAPES, which is only for secondary school teachers. The MEN website doesn't include a concours for primary school teachers in private schools. I'd be curious to know how recruitment in private primaries is carried out.

Anna8888 · 19/09/2008 20:33

Anecdotally, the teachers in my daughter's school seem mostly to have some kind of double qualification - one in France, and one in an English-speaking country. I know that her last year's English teacher, who was a qualified and experienced American primary school teacher, had to spend a couple of years doing the grim banlieue thing before getting her équivalence. She definitely sighed a sigh of relief when she got her job at the EaB.

deepinlaundry · 19/09/2008 20:41

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.