Just wondering... how do you think the financial turmoil will affect private school applications this year?

[PrincessPeaHead]

It was difficult enough to see who the hell could afford boarding fees of £8800 per term in a boom economy... now? Do you think there will be a big move from boarding to private day options (cheaper) or in fact also a big fall in private day applications as people try for grammars/use the good local comp ?

Just musing really.

Clam, my kids are primary age. Over and above what I'd expect from a state primary, I feel I'm paying for,

-wraparound care with consistent adults from 8-6 should I need it which I don't at the moment.
-Class sizes of 15
-F/T nursery nurse in each class
-Swimming pool on site and used weekly by all classes from Reception.
-A trully amazing library which is conducive both to sitting and reading (full of bean bags & children's sofas) and to research (desks,computers and excellent range of primary age ref books)
-Regular visits from well-known artists, authors, sprortsmen/women.
-Regular music tuition in a room set up for the purpose.
-Regular trips out of school for all sorts of purposes. We're lucky if we manage to take a class out twice in the year in a state primary.
-Historical theatre and production groups who come in and transform the class into a Tudor town/Roman town/Victorian slum. This along with the very good stock of artefacts really bring the subject alive for the children.
-Acres of woodland and playing fields for sport and just playtime. I love that my children play in a section with grass and hard surface. With large oak trees housing swings and fabulous state of the art climbing frames.
-Sporting facilities overall which are excellent.
-Art & Design lessons in built for purpose classrooms with excellent resources that just make you say, WOW!

That's what I felt when I visited. That's still what I feel now. Do they need all that? No. Does it trully enhance their entire learning experience? Absolutely! So yes, I very much feel that I get my money's worth.

Good state schools endeavour to get as close to this as possible but with quarter the budget and double the children it isn't going to happen.

UQD - would you agree that private education is essential for some children?

A neighbour of mine has just withdrawn her child from our local primary (which is in the top 50 primary schools in the UK), because the school is unable (or unwilling) to deal with her daughter's extraordinary brightness. She is moving her to an independent school, against all her principles.

Fortunately for her, she can afford to pay the fees if she cuts back in other areas. For her daughter, a really good education is arguably "essential", not a luxury!

(Her DD, having been deeply miserable at school, is now desperate to get there in the mornings...)

mollieo - you misunderstand. I wasn't suggesting you had amended your post. I was referring to the hasty self-correction in the next sentence as written. Saying I had ever said education was a "luxury" is inaccurate and yet two people now claim I have said this. I'm sorry I have to insist on a hair-splitting point but it is fairly central to the debate.

If MN Towers thinks my posts are "personal and offensive" I'm sure they'll do something about it. I for one don't feel they are.

dottoressa - well, yeah, but how many "extraordinarily bright" kids are there whose parents don't have that option? Surely a good education is essential whether you are bright, mediocre, or thick as two short planks? I'm not sure about the implication that only very bright kids need extra-special attention.

UQD, the fact that I do not want my children educated in a Catholic school or a school where 99% of the children are Muslim or where they are going to be in a class or 30+ or in a school were bullying is typical and no homework is set etc etc does not make me a snob. That is what I meant when I said when I said the fact that I know my local schools very well means I don't want my kids going there. I have repeated these facts many times but we continue to read what you want to read rather than what is there. As myredcardigan said earlier I couldn't give a stuff whether my kids go to a school where the parents are all unemployed etc etc but I do expect my kids to be challenged and supported and to be educated in a secular school. As it is my kids attend the only school which is representative of different faiths and ethnicities and where actually a significant number of parents are from working class backgrounds or are actually quite poor immigrants whose children receive bursaries.

The whole is it essential thing is ridiculous really. Nothing is 'essential' except food and water and shelter. After that it's up to the individual and her family to decide what they value and choose to spend money on. I continue to think 'luxury item' is a very odd way of desciribing paying for private school though what with it not being a material possession.

I do think there are a lot more people who could afford private school fees if they chose to than is suggested here. The fact that they don't is none of my business. Two holidays abroad for a family of 4 could easily add up to the private school fees for one child for one year. Some people would rather spend their money on the holidays than the school fees - fine, not my business.

And if you look at the ICSI figures over 30% of kids nationally receive a bursary. I think as is the case with university bursaries often the people who would most benefit from them don't know about them or find it hard to access them. But you cannot deny that the opportunity is there.

Sorry, meant ICS, here:

www.isc.co.uk/FactsFigures_BursariesScholarships.htm

how are you doing there UQD.
Is your head hurting a little?
( I don't tend to agree with you on this but you are being a bit bashed IMO. Not that I think you can't handle yourself - as it were )

I think that sometimes very bright kids doneed extra attention, same as my DS2 with severe ASD needs special attention. But only sometimes of course.And I think the attempt to add a G&T programme may have answered those childrens needs but it has been made a 10% across the board thing so not really fit for that particular purpose anymore.

MY FIL contributes to a foundation to help local bright kids attend his old school as he felt his education changed his life and he wants to repeat that 'gift'. He got an old style fullpayment scholarship to an independent that he would never in a million years have been able to afford. He said it totally changed his life. So much so that he went into teaching.

Actually, I don't agree that very bright children need private education any more than any other child either!
(No point in opposition (to UQD) just for the sake of it!)

With you on that one too myred. My view is that EVERY child deserves the sort of education that can be provided by independent schools. Don't like the my child is special argument because every child is special.

Of course private school isn't essential for the bright. It isn't essential for anyone.

You live near a muslim school, 5candles? I thought there weren't any state funded ones yet? Has that changed?

Ok MRC

sorry that should be

{grin}

although do allow me to take a moment to laugh my arse off at the notion of my DS2 in mainsteam education.
Trust me - he is in need of special attention.

Scummy I live in an area with a lot of faith schools - mainly Catholic and C of E. The result is that there are some almost entirely white Christian schools and some almost entirely Asian Muslim schools. I want my children to receive a secular education and mix with children from a broad range of ethnicities, faiths and social classes. We are Atheists.

So you have a local non-faith community school- it's just that you don't want to use it, is what you're really saying?

I don't live in Oldham but reading this will give you an idea of what I'm talking about:

'"The first thing that struck me when I went around our northern towns and cities, was the issue of segregation," said Mr Singh in an interview with ePolitix.com.

"It was segregation at three distinct levels. Clearly one was residential segregation, two was social segregation and three was education segregation," he said.

"It cannot be right that in 17 primary schools in Oldham, 90% plus of the school role are of one ethnic group. Faith schools may well contribute to that," he said. '

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/1640926.stm

Are you Asian so you thought a school with other Asians wouldn't be a mix? I'm confused. If your kids are white or black then you would be contributing to the ethnic mix of the school by sending them to the nearest, no? And it's not religious so no problem.

But the fact that every child might like to have the myredcard experience (and that list is a large part of what I pay for too of course, the acres of grounds, small classes, kind of luxurious pleasant environment which mirrors that of home) doesn't mean that no child should be allowed to have it. The fact my children might be fed healthy food is unfair if most of this country feeds its children junk. The answer isn't to forbid parents like me giving unfair advantange and force us instead to dole out macdonalds but instead the answer is to try to give the state system the best aspects of the private ssystem, many of which aren't about money but about a lot of other things too - like teachers who b elieve in achievement, are prepared to put red ink on the page, allow chidlren to take part in competitive sport, force children to stand up when they enter the room etc etc

I don't want my children to be the only atheists in any school. No. I feel strongly that I want my children to be educated in a school where all faiths and none are respected and where a range of faiths and ethnicities and none are represented. I don't think this is unreasonable or trivial. Unfortunately the only school which is not segregated is independent.

SM, you will often find that in areas with a large number of RC and CofE schools then the community school in effect becomes a state funded Muslim school with 80%+ children beloging to that faith because their parents (understandably) did not want themto attend either an RC or CofE school. Govenment funding of faith schools directly causes this problem.
I want my children to mix with other children from a diverse range of cultures and religions.

We're white. 99% Asian Muslim and 1% white atheist is not a mix. 1% Athesit and 99% Catholic isn't a mix either.

It sounds perfectly reasonable Fivecandles. The nearest state school, where I grew up, was 99.9% middle class, white and christian. I went to a private school with children from different races, faiths and backgrounds. I'm glad that I can offer the same experience to my children.

During Eid my local non-faith school closes down because less than 5 students would turn up. My girls would be in a handful of students who would not cover their legs or speak a different language at home. I feel strongly that I don't want them to go to an entirely white Christian school either. As I live in a multi-cultural area and like this I want my kids to go to a school which reflects these cultures.

My kids, who are white atheists, went to a community primary school where there were a large majority of Asian Muslim children in just such circumstances as you describe. It was a fantastic school. They now go to a different primary school where black Christian children are in the majority. But of course, since they are both local community non-faith state schools, this makes little difference to the teaching. All faiths and none are respected in any community school. A majority faith does not turn the school into a religious school.

I'm not criticising your choice. You want your kids in a private school. Fine. But I find it disingenuous that you argue that you don't have a local non-faith school.