As a parent, how would you react to this?

[eflabb]

Bit of a long story, but we have just returned from abroad and started my son in Year 1. Where we lived (don't want to say the country name because of school identifying us), primary doesn't start until 7, so my husband taught my son to read, write etc at home. He is also bi-lingual. My husband is a retired ex-teacher.

He has done extraordinarily well and is reading ORT 10 books now, with little difficulty. Comprehension is excellent. He is a real little book worm. I spoke to his UK school about this before we came over and was told by one of the teachers that she personally wouldn't countenance Reception children reading above Level 5 during the Reception year. I comforted myself with the fact that she wouldn't be teaching him, and he started school this week.

On the first day, I was called in by his teacher to a meeting with her and this other teacher. To cut a long story short they wanted to take issue with me claiming that he could read level 10 books. His reading was, quote "all over the place." There were "large gaps in his reading" and "I mean (she laughed and threw her hands up in amazement) he couldn't even understand what a title was." He had, according to this woman, been "sped through the levels" by us to a very advanced level that she claimed he could not function at. And approaching unknown words by sounding them out was apparently "not appropriate" at this level. She apparently felt "sooooooo sorry for him being tested in this way."

Her tone was very dismissive and sarcastic (but lots of smiling at the same time).

Suffice to say, she would now start him on Level 6 (note her position on children only being able to reach Level 5 during Reception, so the way I see it, she is positioning him according to her set ideas as to the levels children can achieve during a particular year).

When we got home he read his school book in about 2 minutes flat and told me how great school was going to be because he can do it all.

I've had my head in my hands over this. My husband just stared at me in disbelief when I first told him and got on the net to check out other schools (which all seem to be full now).

What do we do?

yes you should do that .. make the school really hate you

i would negate georgimama's point that it makes the class more difficult if a child has a reading age of 16 point whatever at 8. it allows the staff to focus on those who are still struggling, and the free readers just get on with choosing their own books and reading quietly once they have finished the task at hand. neither of mine have ever had any issue with being fluent readers in infants, and neither have their teachers. it makes spelling tests slightly trickier but they just get hold of the other lists and set appropriately - it actually makes it much easier for the teachers. dd1's yr 2 teacher said 'every teacher wants a dd1 in their class'... i'm not sure they'd say the same about ds1 but it's nowt to do with his reading... (last year he had 'fluorescent' whilst lots were doing 'you' - no teacher has ever made the point that it makes lesson planning trickier - it's all part of state education having a variety of abilities, surely?)

Romy - it certainly ought to be as you describe at your children's school, but schools and teachers differ. At my child's school, I get the very clear impression that some of the teachers, at least, inwardly groan at having any child in their class who is not 'average', because it means they have to go to greater lengths to ensure that every child's needs are met. It must, after all, be much simpler if all the children are at pretty much the same level.

no such thing as children being at the same level .. sorry .. doesn't happen .. ever

I can see two possible scenarios here and from the thread I don't know which is correct - probably somewhere between the 2!

Scenario 1.

Teacher is type of teacher who doesn't like parental involvement, and likes to be in 'control' of where the child is. Has the view 'don't think your child is particularly special'. Inflexible style, and can be patronising to parents as she explains why their child is more average than they thought.

Scenario 2.

You are rightly proud of your ds, but are disappointed that his achievements haven't been 'recognised' by the teacher on the 1st day, and have therefore felt patronised by the teacher because you feel she is wrong.

Like I say, it's probably somewhere between the two. But I think it's quite a good policy not to 'tell' a teacher where your ds is, but to give them 'some idea' and then let them make their minds up. Just because a child 'can' read a book doesn't necessarily mean they 'should' iyswim (though I don't know your ds, so can't say in his case). Content can be too advanced for them to achieve comprehension. THey may have missed some of the 'learning points' on the way (titles, punctuation, writing speech etc). I remember being surprised at some of the books ds1 brought home in reception - they were very easy - but then I realised that this was because they were looking at something specific, like speech marks, or a particular spelling like 'igh' (night, high, right etc).

So, my advice would be to leave it a few weeks, let your ds settle in and make some friends. If you then feel he isn't being challenged, then make an appointment to speak to the teacher. There'll be a parents evening before long anyway.

Could you go in to help with the class reading? That is always very much appreciated, and would also give you an idea of what level your ds is working at within the class.

I don't think it is easier if they are all at the same level. I think as far as reading/writing goes, it is far easier to differentiate the class into a set of groups, then you know which children are going to need stretching and which will need extra help. Rather than having 30 identical children. I would certainly find that easier. Of course you then can then get the 'invisible middle children' who slip through but that is a whole different issue!

Oh you could be talking about dd's first school. Apparently she couldn't write because she'd been taught printing at nursery and they taught cursive. She couldn't possibly be reading at the level she was because kids of her age don't. Her vocabulary wasn't advanced - she was just using words she'd heard (huh? using them appropriately I might add). Her new school (she's been there since year 2) loved her. "I asked her to read a bit to me, and I could tell straight away that I could put her onto free reading". "Her stories are fantastic and her vocabulary is outstanding". That's what her new teachers said in the first week.

Move her.

Re: teachers' knowledge of kids... my friend's DD was counting in twos (odd numbers) up to 100 aged 3and a half. Dad a maths graduate and clearly the DD had the knack, fascinated by patterns, sequences, counting, shapes, the works. Her teacher told my friend, AT CHRISTMAS (i.e. after a whole term), that she lacked confidence in maths but was much better at reading. (She seldom opened a book!)

Twiglett - I agree. That's why, in my shorthand way, I said at 'pretty much' the same level. Ability, , aptitude, achievement and interests are all such multi-dimensional things that no two children will ever be identical.

Tortoiseshell - I agree with you too. I don't see why it should be easier if all the children are at a similar (not identical) level, for the reasons you mention. But I stand by what I said earlier. I'm a governor at the school and have sat through numerous discussions in which teaching staff have very clearly implied that catering for the needs of children who fall either side of that broad band in the centre of the spectrum into which the majority of children will fall is just another burden they could do without.

I'm glad at least to hear that other teachers or schools view things differently.

I think that because your son has just started in a new school, your main focus for the first few weeks should be social. He will have lots of new names to learn and will be finding his way around the school and the playground. If I was you, I would wait for a few weeks to see how he is getting on. Perhaps invite another boy and his mum to tea - I know this is hard because you will not know who your son is going to befriend at this early stage and I am bad at doing this myself.

Your son's teacher is still getting to know her class and it will take her a few weeks to get to know each child's ability. If you think he is still not being stretched, then book another appointment after two weeks. My dd2 could read in reception. She started in January and it took until June for her to be given the correct books. However, she was learning so many other things, such as making friends, negotiating, taking herself to the toilet that I did not comment (until she asked me to). In year 1, the focus is more academic, but the social learning is still also key, especially for a new starter going into a group that has been together for a year. This applies equally to state and private schools.

I taught DS2 to read before school when he asked. When the teacher came for a home visit just before term started, I mentioned that he could read a little, but I suspect they get a lot of that, so I didn't elaborate.

I then didn't say anything else about it until she came to find me just before the half-term to say how brilliant his reading was; they hadn't formally assessed them till then. She was great - was happy for me to find books that he enjoyed etc.

I know it's right not to 'get hung up on the reading level', but I think it's very easy to do when your child is first starting at a new school; I did when DS1 started in Y2 and was put on books he'd read over a year ago.

My mother was a primary school teacher for over 30 years and she still says that lots of the teachers she worked with didn't like really bright children; they wanted to deny that the child was in fact advanced. Of course most teachers aren't like that, but there may still be some around.

I'd be more worried about the 'not letting any child in Reception read past level 5' bit. They seem to have an odd, prescriptive attitude.

Mr Tumble on speed
lol

Lots of good sensible posts on this thread. It is not a massive disaster if your ds's reading at school does not match what he reads at home. I was a fluent reader long before I started school and I still sat through the first term of learning the alphabet (no ability groups in my school)- this has never interfered in the slightest with my enjoyment of literature.

As a parent, I found that what worked for me was to let dd read whatever the teacher wanted for school and for homework, and then whatever she and I wanted for pleasure at home. Worked well for us: I was leaving the teacher to do her job and she was not interfering with what I saw as my job.

Dh, who was in the lowest reading group in Year 3, has made enormous leaps over the summer and is now reading Harry Potter fluently, but I am not rushing into school to tell the teacher: I am leaving the pleasure of finding out for her. If it takes her half a term that's not a massive problem; he still knows what he can do.

Following up the side issue - yes, teachers can be terrible at talking to adults. It always surprises me when an otherwise confident teacher says 'oh I'm panicking at giving a talk to adults'.

arfishy i agree with what you say

the similar situation we find ourselves in has driven me nutty all week especially the teachers very patronising and almost confrontational tone ..

however

i have decided to hang fire and simply teach him at home ( as i was doing anyway - and it was to this that the teacher objected )

I would say: chill, chill, chill!
ds1 also started school straight into yr1 having not done reception. He also was reading exceptionally fluently by this time. He was also put on to ORT books by school, possibly even Level 5, I'm not sure.

Every night he would very quickly read the school book, (which wasn't changed often), and then enjoy sharing books together. By the end of yr1 he was reading Narnia novels independently, and similar. It was great!

He's just started secondary and is still a very keen reader and very able academically, so the reading scheme books he was put on in yr1 really didn't 'damage' him in any way.

Roisin thankyou for that it really helps!

Op that teacher does sound like she has very poor communication skills, and should have at least slotted in a "well done isn't he great at reading". However Twiglett is so right about teachers perspectives.

You wouldn't believe how many parents are already knocking on the classroom doors after just 3 days of school this week! All needing to get some point across as to why their little johnny needs special attention. (And yes as a normal parent I have to watch myself so I don't do it too!) But the younger teachers can find it overwhelming and 'confrontational' and they bristle and deal with it badly.

She's probably a fine teacher with the kids but as many have said here, maybe she cannot deal with us confident mums!

IMO reading schemes do not develop lifelong readers. If you have the time, enthusiasm, and money to spend on some books I would strongly urge you to ditch the reading schemes or similar, and just enjoy books together.

There are some fantastic novels out there for children. Read them together. At first just stop and ask them to read a single sentence that you know he can tackle; then later move on to a paragraph, or a page.

This is a much better way to encourage a child to be a keen reader, someone who reads for pleasure, and will do for their entire life. Rather than just ticking boxes for school.

thanks roisin

difficult to pitch for 5year old though which is why i have used ort at home with my dcs so far....

Is communicating with difficult / confrontational/ pushy/ assertive/ confident/ uninterested etc. parents not part of a teacher's training?

It should be, shouldn't it? Communication is so key in any walk of life and it makes life so much easier if it's done effectively. Understanding the effect of your tone on someone else is 90% of the battle to making sure that your tone is right so that you get the response you want from them. I would have thought that it would make life so much easier if teachers were taught this, seeing as how so much of their job is communicating with parents. You hear so many tales of it being done badly and I wonder if that's because it's not recognised as a useful part of a training course. It would only need to take a day...

There a fair few threads on MN about books for this age group, inc for good readers. Also some are aimed at those particularly suitable for boys.

I would def recommend getting rid fof ORT though. Fine for school, but not great putside IMO.

If he is ORT he can look at things such as Sprinters, Horrid Henry, Colour Young Puffin, Colour Young Hippo, etc. TBH at level 10 he can probably tackle things beyond Horrid henry, which opens up a whole range of books.

Do a MN search and see what comes up.

LittleBella - no, wasnt in my training at all.

I was a competent, effective teacher. However if I had to do a presentation to parents or staff I would be a nnervous wreck!

Yes it's funny how different it is depending on your audience.

I really think it's an oversight. It would make life much easier. If you communicate with parents well at the beginning of the year, you need never see them again for the rest of it...

I agree. It should be in there. As should voice training.