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Original poster

11plus - grrr!

153 replies

stroppyknickers · 30/08/2008 08:41

Ok, I know I have to buy into it to ger dd into a good school, but really. She is v bright, SATS last academic year (4) showed above average etc. Then, she sat the Bond assessment papers yesterday and scored about 50%! So, it seems that the 11 plus is completely different to school work, and you just train them to pass it (hence dd's friends being tutored since Xmas/ studying weekly etc) How is this fair? If I was a single parent, skint, (as I was b4 meeting dh) there's no way I could afford the test papers etc, so dd would fail thro not understanding the questions. Any opinions?

OP posts:
Freckle · 30/08/2008 18:59

It can lead to bullying. I have friends who have sent their children to high schools because they don't agree with grammars and some of them have certainly been given a hard time for being bright or for wanting to work. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen at grammars (I know there was a boy in DS1's class who was inredibly bright and hard-working and he was given a hard time for being a "nerd"), but it is less likely to happen there. Certainly DS1 hasn't had a hard time about his academic ability since starting at grammar.

StarlightMcKenzie · 30/08/2008 19:15

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Judy1234 · 30/08/2008 19:28

Poor SMc but has it mattered in the rest of your life in terms of the career you took up? SOme people get good grades in state schools but it's harder.

My mother helped my brother get in by practising lots of test papers (at 7 +) as she was a teacher but certainly didn't pay for tutoring. Same with my 5 at private schools, except one daughter for a few weeks. I crtainly don't remember ever paying as much as £60 for test papers and 3 of them are at univesrity stage now.

StarlightMcKenzie · 30/08/2008 19:38

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amidaiwish · 30/08/2008 19:40

my sister didn't have any tutoring at all and didn't get into Tiffin Girls.
however she got a part-scholarship to LEH.
strange.
definitely definitely requires some tuition. her form teacher (state primary) couldn't understand it as in reality she was apparently much brighter than some other children who got into Tiffin. the difference was COACHING and paper PRACTICE.

mylovelymonster · 30/08/2008 19:44

When I did it, you could buy books of past papers to practice on from WHSmiths - not expensive and very useful. Can take as much time as you like and treat them as puzzle books - the answers are in the back. Can you not get them these days?? Can't believe the only route to practice is paying for a tutor - bloody ridiculous.

tallulah · 30/08/2008 19:47

Well I got bullied for being bright, by the girls that joined our school from the secondary modern when we went comprehensive in 1976 I kept my head down, so they wouldn't notice me, and got 5 of the 10 O levels I'd been predicted at 11.

I don't believe in comprehensives at all.

mylovelymonster · 30/08/2008 19:48

....I do believe though that all state schools should be top quality and take in all children and stream. Some are just better at some subjects and weaker on others. The schools would have to be a lot bigger though to take on a greater level of complexity.....

Lilymaid · 30/08/2008 19:51

Think you mean "set" not "stream". Most comprehensives do set pupils for many subjects.

amidaiwish · 30/08/2008 19:53

i went to comprehensive and was streamed (or set?) for maths, english, and sciences. Those were great lessons.

Taught in mixed ability forms for languages, RE, geography, history. TORTURE!

mylovelymonster · 30/08/2008 19:54

....oh yes, have found websites offering 11+ practice......for lots of dosh..........think I should start tutoring in the evenings for free......

amidaiwish · 30/08/2008 19:55

i also think being sporty saves you at comprehensive school if you are bright. My sister was really bullied, stopped working and got average O levels, left school after that.

i was sporty and got excellent GCSEs, A levels, went to uni etc. I was never bullied. A few girls tried to have a go but i stuck up for myself and they left me alone.

However 15 years on my sister has done really well anyway. exams only count for so much.

mylovelymonster · 30/08/2008 19:56

"set"/"stream" - all comes down to the same thing

Lilymaid · 30/08/2008 20:02

No point arguing if you don't know the difference!

mylovelymonster · 30/08/2008 20:04

Is there a difference? Enlightenment not the same as arguing

pointydog · 30/08/2008 20:11

Campaign to end the 11 plus

Remotew · 30/08/2008 20:23

Streamed generally means being put into a class according to ability and doing all lessons with that class.

Setting generally means being put into different classes for each subject according to ability. e.g top set for maths, 2nd set for english and so on

mylovelymonster · 30/08/2008 20:46

Thankyou, abouteve

Remotew · 30/08/2008 20:48

OK chuck! However, you never know it might be you, Oh not this week you have to be in it to win it

Remotew · 30/08/2008 20:49

, wrong thread

MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 31/08/2008 15:17

Amida - familiar story (your sister's I mean.) At our local primary almost all the children get into the indeendents (LEH etc) and most of those with scolarships, but only a few make it into Tiffin. And of tnoses that do, a number of parents opt for the independents as Tiffin is very large and a bit of a 'nerdy' exam factory, whereas the others have a more rounded curriculum.

amidaiwish · 31/08/2008 15:22

yes everyone says to me "oh your DD1 will get into Tiffin, is that what you're aiming for?" and i think "i have no idea, she is 4", but even if she is super-bright and gets in i am not sure it is the best place to go. I suppose it really depends on what other options are available to us in 6 years time!!!

AvenaLife · 31/08/2008 15:35

You can buy the Bond booklets in Waterstones for about £7 each. ds didn't have to do his 11+ because I moved him to the local independant grammar in year 5 rather than year 7 so all he had to do was a few tests for his age group (he's very advanced so walked through them). The private school he was at spends alot of time coaching the children to do the 11+ for their secondary school, most of which get scholarships to private schools. I don't agree with this though as it takes these away from poorer families who could really benefit from this.

The Grammar school was abolished before I started secondary school so I had to go to the local comprehensive. I was in the top set for everything but I hated it. The class were disruptive most of the time and I found it boring. I could read and work alot faster than the others so I spent alot of time waiting for them to catch up. I also used to get alot of people coppying my work, which was really annoying so I stopped working. It's a habit that I am still finding very difficult to break. I only do what is neccesary, sometimes not even that.

Stroppy
We probably have some bond books floating around the house if you want them. ds has filled in a couple of the pages though. I think we have science, verbal reasoning and maths but I'll have to check.

bagsforlife · 31/08/2008 17:54

Look, it ISN'T a fair system. I have/have had 3 DCs at a grammar school. I bought the papers and practised them with them. It isn't fair on the parents who aren't 'in the know' definitely but it is your child your are talking about. Don't worry about your DC not being in the alternative 'hot house' school, none of mine were and they all still passed (no they are not complete geniuses/geneii?? either). Just keep practising and your DC will soon speed up and start getting more right once you have pointed out the way to to some of the questions. I agree with the poster who said that it isn't the same as 'tutoring'. 50% isn't that bad for a first go. Obviously if you keep doing the papers and she really can't do them, then you may have to think again but do not be put off by other parent's children's scores etc. Most of it is just showing off. You will be surprised by how much better your DC will get with a little practice. I remember being marginally disappointed with my first DC having excitedly given her the first paper to do and then her only getting half right!! I feel really mean now looking back but she did (and so did my other two)get into the grammar school!

Judy1234 · 31/08/2008 18:16

Most of the country does not have grammar schools. They were abolished in about 1970 where I grew up. (And we went to private schools). Our plan with our children was get them into academic single sex private schools when they were 5 or 7 ideally one in the top 10 or 20 schools in the country for A level/Oxbridge entrance and then hope the school could get them through the 11+ internally which of course they prepare their own children for.