Private school fees up 43%

[UnquietDad]

story here

Deliberate, do you think?...

So if only "18 professions" can now afford them, and they don't include teachers, architects or police officers, what are they? Any offers?

There are independent primary schools which don't cost £3,500 per term. Top price at DD's school for KS2 is £2,146 per term.

Even so with two children in KS2, you'd need something around £20-22k of pre-tax income just to pay the fees let alone mortgage, etc.

And current fees for Sixth Form are £4k per term which for two children requires around £40k of pre-tax income for fees.

Simplistic calculations, obviously.

The stats are very wishy washy if you ask me, and the professions I guess are based on only one person working. I imagine teachers haven't aforded private schools for a long time. And if they are worth their salt surely a teacher in the state profession would state educate?! Plus not all schools are that expensive..

Katebee, my DH didn't believe the numbers quoted in the Times article (that one needs an income of £40k a year to start sending one child to private school).

He worked out that it was possible to send ONE child to private school on an income of £40k if:

(1) You didn't have a mortgage, in which case it would be tight but you would be able to run a car and have a modest holiday, OR
(2) You didn't run a car, shopped at charity and discount shops and never had a holiday.

Because he was bored, he then started reversing the calculation, which is if you did have a mortgage of £100k, and ran two modest cars, and had one modest holiday a year, how much would you have to earn to send two children to private schools (assuming the private schools cost £10k a year per child). The answer he came out with was £110k per year.

Quattrocento - I think your DH is right on the first calculation.
We don't have a mortgage so could probably afford fees for one child.
However we are planning to buy a bigger house at which point we will have to take out a mortgage of at least £100,000.

110k sounds a lot for the second calculation. I suppose private education is more affordable if household income is composed of two salaries rather than one due to the way the tax system works. I am currently a SAHM so unable to use my tax allowance..

Hopefully when the children are older I will be able to find a part time job and we will then be able to start saving for secondary school fees for both children.

DD's prep is definitely not £3500 a term (we are not in London/south BTW) and her school has pretty much highest fees in the town at present, although that is being evened out a bit at the moment. The high end of high school may reach that I guess, bt definitely not rest of school.

By rebelmum1 on Mon 14-Jul-08 10:06:00

... imagine teachers haven't aforded private schools for a long time. ...

Many teachers, esp where both are working, use the private system.

...And if they are worth their salt surely a teacher in the state profession would state educate?!...

Why? Teachers are just like everyone else. They like to chose what they feel is best for their child, within their own financial 9and other) constraints. Private schools can offer teachers a good option, especially as there wrap around care is often far more welle stablished, at both ends of the school day, something full time teachers deserately need.

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I think it's hard for two teachers - even if relatively senior to afford two/three sets of school fees.

LOL at the heart bleeding emoticon cod, but weren't you telling us about the private tuition to ensure the codsprats get into grammar school ...

Do they? My friends who teach are very scathing of private schools, they don't believe they get a better education. Why would you choose to teach in the state sector and privately educate your children? What are their views of the failings of state ed if it's not the teaching? It seems strange to me.

Did you think the salary's quoted were realistic? I thought that lawyers earned MUCH more than that! Perhaps some of those professions earn bonuses not counted in...

My DH and I earn more than £40 combined, but we could not afford the fees, plus all the extra's you hae to pay for. Luckily the DC are doing OK at the local school so far!

Rebelmum, I think they don't want them mixing with the riff-raff!

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We live in London, both teachers (full-time) in state sector, joint income around £85k, mortgage (small), one car, two dcs in private school on total fees around £25k per year. Fees paid out of income. No grandparents helping. Not sure how we can do this, but we do. Comes down to my salary paying the fees and dp's paying for everything else! Sometimes I wonder if it's worth it but I also do wonder what we would spend the money on if not on school fees - how sad is that...

Don't think the old "mixing with the rifraf" is the reason for most using the private sector - well not in my experience anyway

rebelmum - I can only speak of those I know. Dedicated teachers who worked hard within state sector, but used private sector for whole range of reasons.

Like Bubble we live in an areas where school fees are high, but it is very competitive to get in (academically), so demand exceeds supply, so I'm glad they don't ration by just putting the fees up even higher - which presumably they could do.
My DC go to a state primary which is excellent, but the secondaries are dire, so most parents send thier children to independents for secondary.
I don't know how paretns manage it, but an artivle in the Times today (sorry don't have the link) suggeststhat parents (and grandparents) have recently been funding through re-mortgaging, so that may dry up in the next few years if lenders are more cautious and house prices falling.

What is shocking is when people feel they need to go private because the state provision is just not good enough. That should never be an option.

The private sector should be all about providing extras and value added that one cannot get in the state system, but it seems that more and more it's about providing what people used to assume they could get in the state sector - e.g. at grammar schools, ahem - and now no longer can. Grrrr.

Ok, so its not teachers,architects ot police officers...... according to the accurate article.

Its the whole spectrum, accountants to hairdressers, plumbers to bankers.

People just choose different ways to spend their money, make sacrifices, spend differently,.... so what ??

Hello, once again, I am a teacher (and part-time) and dp is a teacher. Both our dcs are in private education while we are committed to teaching in state. We manage fine. Fees are not as big as in Londong schools, we have a relatively small mortgage. DP is a senior teacher. We have always been careful with money and had savings. We still have holidays and run 2 cars.

It's funny what people consider necessary when it comes to money. I have friends who say they can't afford private school but pay far more each month than I do on school fees on facials, dresses, shoes etc

dh (Armed Forces) and I (state school teacher) sent ds to prep; it cost about £10k a year. We didn't get help from the MOD, as ds wasn't boarding (there are very stringent criteria to get help with day fees), and also I wasn't mobile (I chose not to move around every 18 months with dh).

As dh was away during the week, and for two years was abroad and I was in Cornwall, prep meant that I could drop ds off for breakfast at school at 0750, and pick him up after supper and prep was done at 1850. This meant I could work til 1830 on 4 nights, as he finished at 1600 on a Wed and also went to school on Saturday, which meant that Sunday was a day for just us, as on Saturday I'd sorted domestics and done planning and marking for the following week (in theory).

The help that the Armed Forces get is to provide continuity of education for your kids as changing schools every 18 months isn't clever, especially when you get to year 9. You either have the choice of sending them to board, or spending long periods of time apart from your wife/husband, perhaps leading to marriage breakdowns, and that costs more in the long run. The allowance is currently about £5k per term, and is reduced by the amount of any scholarships the child may win. I also think it's taxed, but I'm not sure as we've never claimed it.

We chose to go without flash cars and expensive holidays to do this, but that was our choice. It also meant that if I decided to move with dh then ds could board in a familiar place if necessary. In the event, ds and I also moved abroad,and ds attends the local international school....not because his prep was bad, far from it, but because we'd had enough of being apart.

rebelmum as teachers in state sector we choose private precisely cos we know what state schools are like. No complaints about teachers nor schools themselves but what they have to work with. Big class sizes + complex needs (including disruptive behaviour, SN, E2L etc) + not enough specialist training = our kids would not be as effectively supported or challenged as they would be in private school where small class sizes + more specialist teaching + less complex needs + more supportive parents = our kids get very well supported and challenged.

On the money side, one thing to note is how long you have been earning before your kids are school aged. Now that people are having kids later you may be in a position where your mortgage is quite small.

Also, back to my point about your priorities. A friend of mine is about to spend 10 grand on her wedding. She hasn't got kids yet but that 10 grand could pay for at least 2 years school fees for 1 child or much more if she put it in the bank now.

It's not my job to decide how people prioritise their spending but in my own life I would much rather spend my money on my kids' education than a big wedding, shoes, luxurious holidays etc.

Wonder how many anguished posts will appear on here over the next couple of years as private becomes simply unaffordable for even more families?

Yup, people are going to have to swallow their pride and look at those "ghastly" state schools where - ooh, look - other children on their street go, so they must be awful.

We have a joint income of £59k and have 2 children at an independant school.

We run 1 car and have a mortgage of £65k

If we had a grammar school I possibly would just spend Cod's £500 on private tuition and save the rest.

However we don't, the only two grammar schools are Catholic and private.