Pre-school, play-group and nursery. It seems they are all the same now, why?

[llareggub]

It is so simple in Wales, or at least where I am from in Swansea. At 3 a child goes to nursery which is the class before reception. Nursery children do mornings or afternoons. After nursery, children go to reception in the same school. Oh, and it is free.

I am clearly failing in my role as mother of a PFB, as the complexities of the english school system have completely passed me by. At toddlers the other day, mothers of toddlers the same age as mine were trying to explain to me about pre-school, nursery etc.

I rang the council to find out more. It seems that in my area, there is only one maintained nursery. The chap sent me a list of other providers but they all appear to be things like christian playgroups, volunteer-led playgroups and the like. Meanwhile, back in Wales, my nephew is preparing to go to nursery and is very excited about going to school with his big sister.

Here in England, I've been told to apply for a place when my son is 2. They suggest visiting the pre-schools before making my application. DS is 2 in September and the groups all break up next week.

Right, so I understand that they all do the same thing, but what I don't understand is why there is so much difference between the provision in England and Wales. I'd really like DS to go to a nursery and then progress through the same school with the same classmates, which is the experience I had. Here, however, the only option for this sort of experience are private prep schools.

I did manage to visit a playgroup yesterday, which has recently been judged as outstanding by Ofsted. I was not impressed at all. It is run at a Youth Centre and the front door, from the main road, was wide open. I strolled right in, through another unlocked door, right into the playgroup. This, combined with the fact that the room did not have any windows made be very concerned about the groups Ofsted would judge as satisfactory!

Am I expecting too much from pre-schools? What have your experiences been?

Yours,

Confused of the Midlands

prescvhool/playground starts here at 2years 9months approx.

then nursery at 3years 9months approx

then school.

oh only dd2 went to pre-school. i wasnt overly impressed, they flagged her up as autistic, went through the whole lot of tests and assessments. turns out she is bright, and approx 18months ahead in most areas of learning. she is now at school, finishing reception, and working at a year 2 level.

after al lthe stress preschool put me through i didnt send dd3. she is starting nursery in sept when she is over 3.6years old.

I don't know what to do really. The general consensus seems to be that it is really hard to find a place. The one I saw yesterday won't have any vacancies until September 2009!

I've no idea whether DS will be ready to go or not at 2 years 9 months. I am inclined to keep him at home and just do things here but MIL is VERY worried about him not interacting with other children, despite the fact we regularly meet up with the NCT group and have done since birth....

Your son would be able to start at a nursery attached to a school in Sept.2010 which would be when he was 4y. Some starting at the same time wouldn't be 4y until the August. The school year runs Sept.-Aug. I'm not sure about areas which have 2 intakes.

What age would he have been to start nursery in Wales. Wouldn't it have been the same?

Anything before that is what I've heard called a pre-school/playgroup/playschool which near me a child can attend from 2.5y but you would have to pay until they turned 3y.

If you think that your son might want to attend then put his name down for a place now. If you don't want the place when it comes up, you can always cancel.

Round here only one of the primary schools has a nursery class. Everyoneelse use pre-schools which are variously run by volunteers or privately owned, but run in church halls and the like.
It's best to visit them and make a judgement. I wouldn't be overly concerned about the building (the one my DC attend is in a very unlovely hall, but the staff are fantastic), but I wouldn't touch the one you looked at with the open door . Ask around the other mums for recommendations.

Nursery grant kicks in the term after the child turns 3yo.

In this area (England) children start nursery at 3 for 15 hours per week.

It is 3 in Wales. I went the week after I turned 3 as I was born at the end of September. I did 5 morning a week. I'm not saying it is a better system, but it is the one I understand!

Every school there has a nursery attached to it, and names are put down at each school.

DS is a winter baby, so "around here" he would start school in the month before his 5th birthday. At least, that is what I think happens!

I guess what I am most surprised about is the fact that he won't go to school until he is nearly 5, unless I find a place at one of these pre-schools. There is one nursery school and lots of private day nursery type places. The private school option is starting look like the most straight-forward option, and of course there the cost won't particularly be a factor until he is 5, with these voucher thingies.

chippyminton, that one with the open door has just had an outstanding ofsted report.

Lesson no 1 for me: don't take too much notice of ofsted!

Also, if you did get a place at a school nursery, this doesn't mean you automatically get a place in Reception. You have to apply all over again for a school place - there is no preference given for children who have attended the Nursery.

i reckon the mish mash and patchy provision is a result of individuals and communities attempting to fill local gaps in provision iyswim.

Nursery provision depends where you live in England. In this area children start on their third birthday for 5 mornings or afternoons in September they will have the option of mixing and matching to a total of 15 hours so could opt for two and a half days or the tradition 5 (3hour) half days but aren't restricted to mornings or afternoons they can choose mornings one day and afternoons the next...

I don't think there is a defined thing called the "English system" - it really depends on what's available where you live. If it's important to you that he will meet children he'll go to school with, why not phone your catchment school and see what pre-schools the children tend to attend? At my DDs school there are 3 pre-schools that most of the children starting reception have come from.

Where I am children start at the school nursery in the September of the school year in which they turn 4y. So some children might still be 3y and some might already be 4y. The following year they start in reception. As someone else said, the reception place would have to be applied for separately.

The nursery grant covers 5 x 2.5hour sessions per week, in term-time. If the session is longer you may have to pay the extra eg DD goes for 3 hours, so I have to pay the going rate for the extra half-hour.

Ofsted is useful, but I'm a great believer in going with your gut-feeling about a place - the general ambience, attitude of the staff, how the children are behaving etc.

The NEG in my area and other pathfinder areas covers 15hours free nursery provision. Most children receive 5 terms of nursery before starting in the reception class.

I don't think the Wales/England distinction is particularly helpful tbh, a lot comes down to individual area.

in our little part of England, you can choose to put your child in nursery from age 6 weeks but you have to pay. or you can choose a playgroup, this might be from 6 weeks or might be from 2.5 or 3. again, you have to pay. or from the age of 3 you can choose a nursery attached to a school(this is usually free as your child is 3, see next section . . .)

from the age of 3 you are entitled to 5 sessions (ie a morning or afternoon) for free. I presume this is the same in Wales? So if your child is in an all day nursery you will have to pay a bit less. if they are in an all day playgroup, you pay a bit less. if they are in a morning or afternoon only session, you do not have to pay but you do have to find a place.

ds2 goes to a preschool attached to a school. it's nice cos he gets to know the school and the other teachers as well, so going to school is no stress for him. he also gets to know lots of the kids who wil be in reception next year. but there is no guarantee of a place at the school just cos your child went to their nursery

hth
phew, what an essay

I guess that is the distinction, then. Where I'm from, if you attend the nursery then you do automatically move up to the reception class. In fact, in the school I went to, the nursery and reception were separated by a little doorway with no door.

Thanks for all of your posts. I am still a little surprised by the mish-mash. I wonder what the "god standard" provision would be?

snigger at "god standard." I'm He would have a view, but it is the "gold standard" obviously I am interested in!

Our nursery and Reception are also only separated by a door!

But there is no formal admission criteria for the nursery class but there is for Reception (particular needs, catchment area, older siblings)

are you sure they automatically move up? our nursery/school is also separated by only little door and the kids play together in the early years playground. it's lovely . but you definitely don't get a guaranteed place cos it's all based on points these days eg

how far you live from school
if special needs statement
if siblings going to school already

so what happens at oversubscribed schools/nurseries in Wales then? how do they allocate places? how do you get a place at a school nursery? (interested)

you dont automatically go from nursery to school even if the nursery is attached.

in about oct-jan yu will get a pack through for nursery places and how to apply. here we get a big booklet with all the nurseries in the herts area. then you fill in 3 choices, andwait and see.

dd3 starts this sept for nursery. and again in around oct we will get another letter and booklet with how to apply for school places.