Some anecdotal evidence about summer borns

[duchesse]

My daughter (27th July) will be starting senior school in September aged just 11yr 1 month. She went for her induction day at the pretty selective school she will be attending, during which one of the activities involved the girls sorting themselves out into age order.

My daughter was the youngest of the 34, by nearly 6 weeks (the next youngest was June 15th, with one other earlier in June). The point is that there are hardly any girls born in the summer term. Anecodotal evidence that summer borns tend not to do as well academically even by the end of primary school, or mere statistical blip?

I was born at the end of August so I was pretty much the youngest in my year. There was just one boy, born on 31 August who took the youngest spot.

I don't think I under-performed. All As etc at GCSE level and went on to get a degree and a masters degree.

Looking back however I do think in hindsight I was a little too immature for university. I'd just turned 18 and I really struggled with the transition. I'd planned a gap year but was advised by teachers not to do so. I think back then the concept of gap years hadn't reached deepest, darkest Wales and they worried that I wouldn't go back to education once I'd left.

There are so many other variables that input upon academic achievement. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just be guided by your child.

Lots of responses already, which I expect all say much the same thing, but I was born 1st August, and one of my closest school friends was born 21st August. I was always in the top 3 in my year academically (often top), and got the 3rd highest A level grades in my year. My friend iirc was one grade above me for either GCSE or A level, and I was one grade above her for the other.

Conclusion -> our birthdays far from held us back.

I was born mid-August and did well academically. When I think back amongst my friends, we were spread throughout the year and no particular pattern relative to academic achievements. I don't think I was more socially immature but I was very shy until I got to 15/16ish.

DD2 is also mid-Aug born and I do worry about her. She isn't due to start school for another couple of years. One school (where DD1 is) has them going part time for first term, the other school (if she doesn't get into DD1's school - bloody catchment area keeps shifting) then they have them all going full time by the 1st half term. I think if I wasn't happy, I would put foot down and keep her part time until she was ready. Agree - they don't have to go full time till they're 5. Too many heads are very dogmatic about this.

That said, I think DD1 would've been ready for reception at age 4. The thing I worry about most is not reception as much as them going into Yr 1 when they're just 5.

My birthday (and that of my twin) is 27 August. Clearly we were right at the end of the school year. I was always top in the year and my twin was always in the bottom 10 or so. So, no definite proof that your child/children will or wont do as well as their peers.

Is this a particularly (sp?) english problem? In scotland the cut off is somewhere in march, so if you have a summer born going to school at 5y 1m then there will be children in their class in the age range 4y 6m to 5y 6mo. The youngest have the option to delay by a year if the parents wish. So would the same stats also apply in scotland where summer babies are not the youngest in the class?

I suspect anecdotal evidence on Mumsnet is far from representative. Just because some summer-born children do well doesn't mean that there is no 'summer-born effect'. My children are doing well because they are lucky enough to be the academically able children of parents who are not only academically able themselves, but also supportive and not in any hardship, financial or otherwise.

I would imagine statistics show that summer-born children are shorter than autumn-born children, too, but I'm sure some Mumsnetters have children who are the tallest in their class as well as the youngest.

On the other hand, someone I know said that they would have to send their girl to private rather than state school because she's an autumn baby and so will get bored if she goes to a state school.
Jeez, just think of all the money you're saving with your summer babies...

My August-born 12-year-old DS2 is doing fine but I suspect he would have been doing a lot better if he had started school a year later.
I know there has to be a cut-off date for school entry but if it were up to me they would start in the September nearest their fifth birthday. I'm sure this wouldn't be too difficult to administer?

I'm a teacher and a colleague observed that it takes until the sixth form for summer born babies to fully catch up (partly based on his August-born daughter's experience but also on his classes over the years).

BTW - now you get 9 mths statutory maternity pay teachers will be planning babies for September, returning at the end of the summer term and effectively being off for virtually the full academic year - I know I have!

This thread does scare me a little.

dd2 (end of june birthday) starts school in September. I don't have any specific worries about her - she mixes well with the other girls at preschool, her reception class will be very play based, she can read a little already - I just think she's going to be really, really tired, and she's going to miss me a little. Most of the children at her school will go full time after a week of half days, but the school is very flexible if they need longer. However, I'm not sure of the advantage if she's got to get out of bed to drop off her big sister - its not like she'll get a lie-in.

I think I'm going to send her full days and see how she gets on - I'm imaging a term of her returning home exhausted and grumpy.

It even makes a difference at beginning of university, summer born students who are going straight from school have only had a month or two as legal adults. DS didn't have his bank account sorted out properly (couldn't sign the forms for it until 18th birthday so relevant stationary not back in time for when he went away), but on the other hand got free healthcare for the whole first year as still under 19

Look amongst the professional footballers, athletes etc and in general they are autumn born,

lingle - just giving anecdotes like others; just showing a positive slant on it all; as most of the summer borns I know now as adults all did very very well at school and at university.

Just something positive for mums of summer borns to see,not all doom and gloom.

Another posirtive story.
DD1 was 4 the day before she started reception (29th August) and her report says that although she is the youngest in the class,you would not know it.Academically,she is ahead of most of her older peers,and socially she is absolutely fine,very popular & far more confident than I ever was.

I sent her full time from day one of school-I thought it would be unfair for her to be pulled out at lunchtime when all her friends were having fun.She adapted very well & we had no grumps or tiredness.

Incidentally,she will still be 4 when she goes into Year One after the holidays,her birthday is the day after they go back to school.

duchesse, just in case you need any more anecdotal evidence - DS1 and DS2 are both summer babies (mid-July and early August respectively) and both are doing fine at school and are on the enrichment programme

in fact I think DS2 would have been unbearably bumptious if he'd been born 1 month later and therefore not started school for another two terms

Leosdad, when my mum was at university she wasn't legally an adult either! (21 was the age of majority then, I don't think it was lowered until the early 1970s)

My ds2 is an August birthday and I fretted about his starting school at barely 4 years of age. Fretted and posted and fretted and posted... People said all different things but predominently said that it depends on the individual child, and this has been my experience too, in the end. Ds2 now nearly 6 and has done nearly 2 years of school - couldn't be happier and, strangely, even though at 4 he was struggling to even understand the difference between numerals 3 and 5 (even using the numberjacks fgs), his maths is excellent now and his reading too. So there is hope!

I don't know if my story is of any use, but we decided not to push ds2 too hard in the first year, to just let him get on with it. And it seemed to work. His enjoyment of school has then engendered in him a sense of wanting to learn. He goes to a smallish village school too (100 pupils overall), which ran a play-based reception, and that helped. DS1 started out at an aggressively acadmenic (state!) primary in west london and in some ways was doing worse than his younger brother at the end of year 1.

ooh and another thing about summer children - they are charming! What they lack in sporting potential (!) they more than make up for in charm...

There is a lot of evidence in very good studies that yes, in general and statistically some autumn born children do have an advantage over some summer born children in the education system, which even shows in the percentage of them that end up at university. While plenty of bright, mature kids will sail through the system very happily, it can be a real struggle for some. I know of children in the private system who have really benefitted from switching schools, dropping a year, and really flourishing as the oldest in the class where they were floundering as the very youngest.
I think this is not a 'slur' on summer-born children as some people seem to feel (I was born in July) but just a fact - a September-born child is just about a whole year older than an August-born one. I think it should mean that schools should offer some flexibility to even out this disadvantage. Unfortunately there is no such flexibility in the state system.

My b'day is 27th August, and I have a first class degree and a PhD!

I never felt it made any difference academically. I went to an academically selective private school from 5-18, but in later years I was quite struck by how relatively dim some of the girls were who were almost a year older than me!

There were a couple of girls who were younger than me (and a couple who were more than a year older), as independent schools are less picky about birthdays. I have to say, though, that the girls with November b'days (i.e. who were 14 months younger than some of their peers) didn't do as well as they would have done if they'd been in the year they "should" have been in.

It's also worth noting (purely anecdotally) that the cleverest person I've ever met by a long way was a girl in my class at school whose birthday was just before mine!

I wouldn't like to say whether it makes a difference when children are starting at just four. FWIW, my DD was four a month ago, and I've deferred her entry so she won't start school until the last term in Reception (again, independent schools offer much more flexibility on this score!)

My birthday is November, but as I ended up at a local private school (mainstream wouldn't take me anyway), I moved up a year aged 5 1/2. Ended up at a boarding school which used to have everyone a half-year young for their year, but obviously was affected by mainstream policy and also by loads of foreign students who started school 2 years later.

In every year, out of the 15 or so students born after Sept in their year, almost all would have academic scholarships. Many had only got moved ahead on entering secondary school.

I think one year ahead is OK, but my last year of primary was at an expat school. I entered age 9; all the other kids in my class were 11-12, some turning 13 that year. ENORMOUS social disaster!

I insisted on a gap year before uni, and uni were glad to hear it. Two guys I knew went aged 15/16 and really screwed themselves up through immaturity.

It's going to be interesting as my PFB is due in Sept and will grow up very close to familybaby #2, born end May. If they are at the same school I guess different years may be easier anyway. I was a quiet child who could read, so school from age 4 was perfect for me, but no idea what our baby boys will be like...

Haven't read whole thread. Sorry!

Just another anecdote though:

I'm August born and ended up at Oxford where I amde very good friends with two Septemeber borns and a November born who were all the youngest in their year because they had been moved up.

Being summer born does give you a whole year as well which is a bonus. You finish your A Levels etc at 17 rather than almost 19!

The thing is, they find themselves in a class full of children that could be a year older than them, so ime they struggle. I was def the youngest and i feel i struggled because of it. didnt do well at school, did go back as a mature student and did OK. DD1, she was born in June, youngest and it was weird as her cousin was almost a year older and it SHOWED, it was weird to have them in the same class. DD2 was born on 23 july and therefore will be one of the very youngest. She has speech delay too so i am worried that she will be starting school next year when she will only be just four .

I think that this needs addressing tbh, however, im not sure how the schools/government would address it. Six monthly admissions that are not separated until maybe secondary school.

I don't get why there has to be a strict cut-off date. If reasonable flexibility were allowed the numbers in each year would balance out anyway. We need to lose the hangup about age - it doesn't matter whether someome starts university at 17,18,19 or even 20 - should be an individual thing.