Some anecdotal evidence about summer borns

[duchesse]

My daughter (27th July) will be starting senior school in September aged just 11yr 1 month. She went for her induction day at the pretty selective school she will be attending, during which one of the activities involved the girls sorting themselves out into age order.

My daughter was the youngest of the 34, by nearly 6 weeks (the next youngest was June 15th, with one other earlier in June). The point is that there are hardly any girls born in the summer term. Anecodotal evidence that summer borns tend not to do as well academically even by the end of primary school, or mere statistical blip?

Starlight I had never heard of fee-paying parents doing that before.

One of the main attractions for me in considering private education was the facility to hold my eldest ds down a year if I wanted too. We really considered this as the maturity factor becomes more important, IMO, around GCSE/A Level time. However, after taking advice we kept my August boy with his age group and feel that he is doing very well and holding his own nicely.

I was discussing this with my son a while ago and he was horrified at the thought that we might have put him in with [insert scorn] year sixers.

The only people I have heard of who have been pretty consistant on birth planning have been teachers that I have childminded for. They all had it down to a fine art to maximise time off.

More ancedotal evidence

My mum's birthday is late August. She got her degree at aged 20, that is almost 48 years ago.

I was born in September and am thick as 2 short planks.

Absolutely Nutmeg- all the teachers I know aim, if they are able to plan, that is, for January birthdays. They go back to work after six months, usually for about 1 or 2 weeks, get paid for the summer break, and return in September when the baby is roundabout 9 months.

I would argue it is down to the individual child.

My son is a March birthday and in the middle sets for things. My daughter has and August birthday and is top for everything.

I think it is all bolleaux and looking for a 'reason' for something

Birth dates seem to even out by time you're in secondary.

DH and I are late summer-borns and we have a full complement of brain cells. A bit at birth date planning for schools though!

Yes, but what about my daughter's year group then? Eh? Are we saying it's mere statistical blip, or that maybe there is some kind of self-selection process in operation?

Well, thinking of children from my dd's year who went to selective schools last year, I'd say statistical blip.

Someone must have done a national study on this, surely?

There IS evidence to suggest that summer babies are less LIKELY to do well academically and the difference is still noticeable at GCSE and beyond. Boys in particular are more likely to show a difference in academic performance if they're born in summer.

The key words here though are MORE LIKELY. This doesn't mean all summer babies perform badly and underachive. Or that September babies are automatically going to be world leaders.

Any anecdotal evidence will give you examples that both support and buck the general trend.

It is a sliding scale too. So the very youngest boy in a class who also has unsupportive parents etc is likely to show a marked and continued acadmic difference when compared to the oldest girl in the class with supportive parents. However, a June born girl with supportive parents may well achieve results which are average or above average and so on.

Being the oldest in the class obviously gives you an academic and social advantage.

Although I (Aug born) and my dds (June born) have done absolutely fine academically (I have good exam results, plenty of As and several degrees) and the dds are now perofmring towards the top of their academically selective schools I have absolutely no doubt that if we had been Sept born instead we would have found life easier.

It's not just that you're likely to find the work easier if you're Sept born but you are more likely to get the praise and boost to your self-esteem which can have a life long impact and give you an immediately positive attitude to learning and popularity etc.

Here's a link to some research which suggests the impact even affects university entrance www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article2013397.ece

Am sure I've posted this nugget before, but I couldn't be happier that my mid-August (and physically tiny) DS is in the academic year ahead of his peers from my antenatal group. Bright bunch, all of them, but DS is way ahead in terms of achievement, purely because he's covered more (partic now he's in Y7 and they're still at primary). How many of us chunter on about wanting our bright kids stretched academically, so how much more galling if your DC is an Autumn-born, and could be coping very nicely in the year ahead? Of course, the flip side to that is if your summer-born DC is immature, or needs academic help, then you'd wish they were in the year below, where they might shine.
The thing is, there are a zillion variables, as fivecandles said. And anyway, there's nothing we can do about it. There has to be a cut-off point somewhere. It all comes out in the wash, anyway.

I'm a summer born,birthday next week, had big issues at school and was put into sn. did my degree as a mature student, near top of class. Used to be very immature I think.
Always felt younger.

DS3 is late july and also has sn- the combination makes it hard to know where he is and whats sn and whats birthday

Statistical blip, especially for girls.

In DD's nursery, the girls are all way ahead of the boys in terms of writing, pen control, reading and general physical coordination etc, irrespective of when their birthdays are. They just seem to be so much mature at this age.
I am a summer born and it made no difference. DH is July bday and said it did make a difference but then he is a complete overachiever, Oxfored Blue, PhD etc so not quite sure what negative impact he thinks it had!

My birthday has always been July and it never hurt me at school, 10 GCSE gade B and above, 4 Alevels and a degree, DH is June and has 2 Masters! My mum is also June and has a degree

at my birthday has alwys been July!

DS is a July birthday, and TBH for him it's swings and roundabouts. He is bright and suitably challenged and all that, but he is is physically immature and struggles a lot with writing. I think he may have general problems in that area which may be exacerbated by being young for his year group IYSWIM.

Anecdotal, of course but...

DS1 and DS3 both August-born, both do very well academically. DS1 was initially at a disadvantage with his social skills, but caught up very quickly and is quite mature for his age.

DS2 - October-born, not particularly big for his age but is very sporty, not at all academic, and can be quite immature.

Both DH and myself are August-born too, and we did ok...considering we both went to a sink secondary.

Statistical blip, definitely.

My Phd brother was summer born.

I was an autumn baby but due to particular circumstances that wouldn't happen now, I actually went through the whole school system a year ahead, so was the youngest rather than oldest. I quite liked being the very youngest...I didn't struggle academicaly, but because, perhaps of my age I was never the top either. That meant I was never bored or coasting and always had someone to chase..had I felt competitive.

DS is summer-born - mid-July, and the second youngest in his class. He doesn't struggle socially or academically, and in my less noble moments I enjoy the ability to 'make allowances' for the fact that it took him ages to learn to read, and then to indulge in some (secret, guilty) smug preening when he does well in things.

the academic year is, after all, set up to cater f a whole year group and the span in age - unless other things converge, like needing longer t pick things up, or being very shy or a little slower to mature, then being summer born should be fine.

Similar to Threadworm - ds has not started reception yet but will be one of the youngest in his school year given he has a July bday but I see this as a good thing as he is pretty bright and I think he'd get bored if he had a Sept bday, bored at nursery for an extra year and then quite a bit ahead of the others given he was starting to sound out words before he was 3.

So it's not always a bad thing academically (social maturity wise that's where my ds might struggle a bit more but we'll see!)

Sir Jim Rose is due to report to the Government in October this year on the summer-born issue because the Government now accepts evidence that, on a statistical level (see explanation of difference between statistics and individual achievement above) summer-borns do not catch up. The sort of evidence that would count, for instance, is that at University entrance level, fewer than 1 in 12 entrants are August-born. There is a report from the Institute of Financial Studies on this.

Very few other countries put children into full time school at 4 years and 1 day. In the USA, my children would be starting a year later than here. In Scotland, there is greater flexibility. There is no evidence that our children end up better qualified than in the late-starting countries.

In Bradford LEA, you have a right to put a child that you have held back by a year into reception a year later. Given that the statutory school age is 5, not 4, I think that Bradford is obeying the law and other LEAs may be breaching it. A Bradford headmaster described it as "cruel and inappropriate" to put children into full time school at 4 years and a few days old, so this is not just the ranting of a paranoid parent, and nor is it true that "there is nothing we can do".

If your August born is thriving at school, that's great. But that does not mean you cna dismiss my concerns for my immature August -born boy - as "bolleaux" or in any other way. And yes, someone has to be the youngest, but why should it be the least mature child? Remember, it is England and Wales that are out of step here, not the rest of the world.

If anyone wants links, let me know.

The special school I work at has mostly boys who were summer born. Infact its frighteningly top heavy.

I think the problem is that England has a very sharp cut off. Some September born girls are ready for school and are bored with nursery. Some summer born boys (or even the odd girl) need a bit more time in nursery.

In most countries children can be held back a year. Prehaps it would be kinder to get a summer born boy to repeat his nursery year rather than setting him up for failure.

School is more than just learning to read and write. Both girls and boys need social maturity as well as fine motor skills. When my son started school a friend commented that her daughter was ready for school than my son because my son had zero pencil skills. My son has a December birthday and her daughter was born in July.

However my son was happy during reception where as her daughter cried everyday. Her daughter is gifted and talented but socially less mature.

That is frightening indeed..... is there any kind of general "theme" or story that tends to emerge about these summer-borns?

I would certainly not consider moving out of the Bradford area at present as Leeds and York (I believe) try to block parents from starting their children at 5 by forcing them straight into Year 1. And even Bradford tried to do the same but thank goodness various heads objected.

My 2 sisters and I are all July birthdays and have all done very well academically but who knows how much better we could have done I guess? And all of us were useless at sport! I always felt, even at secondary school that the September born children carried themselves differently, they had an air of self-esteem and dominance that others didn't have. Could be my own personal paranoia I guess.

When I used to teach in a Secondary modern (so top percentage have been creamed off for grammar school) - I looked carefully at the groups and there was an even spread of birthdays throughout the groups.

My dd is not 4 until the middle of August and tbh I am fretting about her starting school. I actually think she is ready academically but am worried more about the social side of things - getting herself to the loo, dressing, eating and just getting plain tired. She is still really a toddler and at the moment I'm dreading September but don't feel there is any solution as if I kept her a playgroup for the next year she would be bored silly. What she needs is part-time reception year but they only do mornings only for a month then it's straight in there full-time.

Summer born aecdotes:

DH, birthday July, did really well academically, did well at university, now equity partner in solicitor's form, ding very well

Brother, birthday June, got first at university, now very successful engineer

Sister, birthday July, again did very well at school/university, now working as solicitor and doing really well

BIL, birthday July, although messed up an A level at school, did very weill at university, won uni award IIRR, and now successful building surveyor, also doing very well.

This is just 4 of the summer born adults I know.

But Hulababy, what's your point? That you never know, an August child might be one of the, say, 85% or so who do just fine?
No-one's saying they all do badly.

Hangingbelly (like the name btw!) - my dd's b'day is August 30 , and was supposed to start full-time last year after a two-week run-in.

I said quite firmly but politely to the teacher that she would continue to do half-days. And she did just that until June, when she announced that she wanted to stay all day and have hot dinners.

The school were very amenable - they said they quite understood. Well, anyone could see that dd was just a baby and really not ready for a full day's school. A number of other parents did the same as I did and took their dc home early some days.

The law says they do not have to start until 5, so start they do not have to.