Changing offered primary school after telling nursery friend

[NEWBee88]

Hi all, would really appreciate some advice as I’m tying myself in knots over this.

My child is at the nursery attached to School B (our catchment). We put him there last September partly for financial reasons at the time (my husband had lost his job), and also because it made sense as it was the most likely school we’d get.

When it came to school applications, we ended up applying for another school (School A) as our first choice as at the time it felt like the stronger option (very good results, great feel when we visited), but we were quite torn and thought we’d get School B but didn’t want to look back and regret not trying for School A. We were offered School A, which was a bit of a surprise as we’re out of catchment.

I’ve been trying to feel comfortable with that decision, but now my child has been at the nursery at School B for 8 months, he is really happy, settled and thriving, has made friends, and I’m feeling quite emotionally torn about moving him. School B will also have smaller classes than expected (around 20 vs 30), which is making me reconsider it. I’ve also seen more of the school over that time and really like the culture around behaviour and how they handle things like kindness and bullying in the older years.

My main issue now is the social side. Another child from nursery is going to School A and after allocation 2 weeks ago we said we were too. Their child now thinks they’ll be going together and they’re in the same nursery group (the family also have other friends from their old nursery going). Most of the class bar 4 kids are going up to the school.

I feel really guilty about potentially changing our minds, both on the child and parents. We see them regularly at drop off/pick up and very loosely share a social circle (parties, park play after nursery, quick chats at the gate – they’re a nice family). I keep worrying it could create bad vibes socially, both with them and more widely if it gets talked about, and whether it risks starting us off on a bad foot, even though I know ultimately we need to do what’s right for our child.

We have a couple of weeks to make a final decision and may speak to School B about a couple of the initial concerns we first had before deciding.

WWYD? And how would you handle it with the other family? Should I be this concerned about that side of things?

I’d see if you can swop first and then get it all sorted then say to the other family on further consideration you’ve gone with the option B as your child is really settled but obviously out of school and socially and with local activities you’ll still see them about.

id be pleasant about it all and it is your choice ultimately and when you say “go together” do you mean like lift sharing etc??

Thanks for taking the time to post. When I say going together I mean attending the same school together (not getting there together). By parties I meant kids parties.

Do what is right for your child and family. In a few months this will be a distant memory and your child will have seven years in primary school so it has to be the right choice for them and you. You don’t owe the other family and any temporary tension, if there is any, will pass.

We got offered a place at the school where DD went to nursery but it wasn’t our first choice. We made friends with a lovely family and then a few days into starting Reception, DD was offered a place at our first choice. We moved her and I remember feeling guilty about the other family, like we were abandoning them! But it was absolutely the right choice for us and DD thrived. A couple of years later I bumped into that family and they had also moved schools as they got offered a place at one closer by that they loved. Things change so please don’t stress it too much. Good luck.

Thanks so much for sharing this and appreciate your kindness. If you don’t mind me asking how did you feel around moving her from friends and the familiar setting? I can’t shake the guilt feeling, and the feeling I’m doing the wrong thing by disrupting his world and friendships for no reason. It sounds like it worked out really well for your family and was the right thing ❤

Friendships at this age are very flexible. As long as you don't make a big deal of things your child won't be any the wiser. I honestly wouldn't give it a second thought. Do what is best for your child.

My daughter started school and didn't know anyone. Nobody from nursery went to the same school.
She settled in quickly and had a great first year at school. They make friends quickly and don't really think of nursery friends that often.

My daughter then started a new school for year one and has settled in just fine once she learnt how they do things. (state to independent school). She's had a great year and has enjoyed school. Made new friends quickly.

At that age they really do adapt. DD settled into her new school pretty quickly and made great friends. She barely remembers her nursery now but has wonderful memories of her primary school years. When you’re in it, I know how stressful it is, but it’s a snapshot in time and the memories made afterwards will be what counts. Choose the school you want, that your gut tells you - whether that’s A or B - and don’t look back.

Don't choose a school based on your 3/4yo's friendships. They won't remember them.

My dd is in y1 now and can hardly remember any of her old nursery friends, even though they all still live locally and we bump into them lots. It's that classic thing where the mums stop and say oh wow Jenny look how you've grown! You remember Sarah don't you! And the girls look blankly at each other.

You aren't "disrupting" his friendships, they aren't really genuine friendships at that age, they're just situational playmates

Thanks so much all. Really appreciating your advice and experience. If we do decide to stay any advice on how to tell the parents that we have decided not to move? I feel bad about causing upset or parental stress. To top it all off we’re all at a school nursery party together on Sunday. School chat will come up and I feel like I have to stick with the line that we’re going to school A (until we have 100% decided if we’re switching and told the other parents). Would just love to avoid school chat there all together !

Really don’t think about others here.
nursery friendships don’t mean much by end of week one of reception. Mine can barely remember who they were at nursery with

In the nicest possible way, you’re totally overthinking this. They made their choice of school based on what was right for their child, not because of your child going or not going. I wouldn’t care in the slightest if I were them (but I also didn’t realise until I joined MN that it was usual to go to school with a bunch of children that you knew already!)

Although class size is currently 20, as soon as they hit ks2 they will merge the classes and put a TA in there. They are presumably under PAN. I would query why they have two small Classes.

This is a good point and has been on mind too re money they’re losing out on. They have 60 PAN and 40 allocated so far for the year (admissions stats on county website). Slightly wondering why so low. I am thinking that most people went for the better on paper schools / top achieving and got in because of the low birth rate. And this school has been second choice for many. But perhaps with these now small classes the school may have an advantage to help children achieve their individual capabilities, and could lead to amazing outcomes (obviously this is my thinking and not backed by any stats)

You absolutely need to make the decision that works best for your child long-term, which sounds very much like School B, which he is now familiar with and you have come to like the culture of. It may be upsetting for your friends to have to explain things to their child, but you can't make such a significant decision because you feel bad for their child. I have three kids and at different stages had families we got on with well, they ended up at different schools etc. While we're always happy to say hi and chat when we bump into them our children's lives have moved on and filled up with the busyness of whichever primary schools we're each at. They will be fine and their child will be fine. Friendships and social dynamics at this early stage are not set in stone. My youngest moved to primary school with his absolute best friend from nursery. While they are still friends, they've developed lots of other friends as well and aren't as close now. It would have been mad to make a school decision based on their relationship as 3 year olds.

Thank you. I know you’re so right. Have to make the best decision for my family. What would you say to the falling numbers in school B? I’m not sure whether to be concerned by that (the way the number of applications look at school B this year suggests it was a strong second choice for people and most people this year in the area seems to get their first choice - there are a lot of on paper excellent schools nearby)

Starting off in a class of 20 will be great, but don't assume that it will continue. School budgets are tight. If the year group drops to 30, they will almost certainly reduce to one class. Once they get to KS2, that might happen with more than 30, as the class size limit is relaxed at that point. If they continue around the 40 mark, and the next year group is similar, they may well look at mixed year group classes. These can work very well, with a bit of planning, but it means they will be back up to more normal size classes.

I don't think this is any reason to avoid a school that isn't full, but you just want to be aware that the small class size may not persist. There might also be less TA support.

A class size of 20 sounds like it should be a positive, but it isn't. It essentially means the year group has 2/3 of the funding it needs, and that money will need to be found from somewhere, be that cutting back on equipment, TAs, support staff, extracurricular offerings or trips. You may find yourself moving from a class of 30 with a full time TA to a class of 20 without. (So from 1/15 ratio to 1/20).
That doesn't mean you shouldn't move - but you should absolutely see the small class as a point in the negative column rather than the positive. And as others have said, the school will try to bring the classes back to 30, whether by reducing PAN or mixing classes. If kids leave, you might well find your child in a class of 34 in Year 3.
I wouldn't worry about the other parents. Your children might not even be in the same Reception class. They should understand.

Thanks so much. Do you think I’m fair to email the school asking what the plan would be with the smaller class ? I see it as a positive with engaging kids and the learning aspect - more teacher time for them, teacher less stressed. But I would be concerned about those negatives too. (Eg trips, TAs, merging classes - although I thought they have to keep it to 30?). I don’t want to interrogate them but also would want to have some confidence.

You can ask but I doubt the school will give you a detailed answer on that level of question. They will likely be doing all they can to increase their intake though. And before you worry about TA cuts, check what their provision is at the moment anyway. I’m a school governor and we have a TA per class up until year 3 and then 2 TA’s across 3 classes for years 4, 5 and 6. Many teachers we interview see that as a luxury as they are accustomed to no TA or sharing with a lot of classes. So there may not be many TAs at the school anyway. What are the journey times to the two schools? A short journey, ideally walking distance, and local friends is worth a great deal in my view.

Thank you. At present they have a TA in every class for KS1, and then 1 in every year KS2 (it’s a 2 form school). The idea of 20 in a class is so appealing.

In the preschool class there are about 21 girls and 5 boys, so maybe that’s something to bear in mind. Assuming that reception intake follows this similar ratio as most kids are staying on (bar 5). I wonder if as he gets older will it be hard for him having such a small pool of boys in this school (I know that school A is a lot more mixed).

Both schools are under 10 mins walk, lots of neighbours go to school B (not all). But I feel we have those friendships already that we can continue (we knew them before preschool).,

Ps school A is where we are allocated now (the on paper better performing school who seems to have a great headteacher). School B is where we are at the nursery/ preschool now.
School A doesn’t have a nursery

@NEWBee88 I hate to tell you this, but 20 in a class is not financially viable. If the school normally has 30 it’s seriously losing money as income is per capita based. Usually 60 dc will be amalgamated into 2 classes, not remain as three. As the other school does very well, clearly larger class sizes have no detrimental effect. This can be for a variety of reasons.

However you need to know the financial position of your newly preferred school to know what they might do about amalgamating classes. Whatever way you look at it, if the school has 7 classrooms for 30 dc, (210 capacity and pan of 30) 20 isn’t viable for long in numerous year groups. You will get a place though if the pan is 30.

You may also find that there are more than 40 kids in the year now. Anyone moving to your area (or who didn't realise they had to apply for primary schools) will now be assigned that school. I doubt that will be 20 children, but it won't be zero.

@CheerfulMuddler This depends what the pan is. If 60, there’s spaces. If 45, fewer spaces. Most schools cannot operate on 40 when they plan and have costs allied to 60. Again 2 x 40 is 80. That’s still 3 classes with 27 in each if only one more dc arrives.