Going round in circles about whether to delay August DS

[Givemepickles]

I'm driving myself doolally thinking about this. My DS is late August birthday. I can't decide whether to delay him a year or not. This is based on him as a person rather than just because he's summer born. If I delay, my LA will put him into Reception at 5 years old, not into Year 1. Please help me decide!

Some background info:

He's going to a village school with 20 - 25 per class. One form entry. Very nurturing however they won't allow part time in reception so he has to be full time from the start unless I want to go to battle with the school. They've made that clear.

This is what I see as pros and cons.

Pros:

• reading many posts about children not coping from Y1, Y3 or Y7 and so on and parents wishing they had delayed at the start but it was hard to tell in reception as it's still play based so by delaying we would give him a better chance of being ready at those stages
• up until recently I've been pretty sure he would get an adhd diagnosis - he has been a very challenging child with extremely sensitive temperament, cries easily and injures himself constantly, sensitive to texture, noise etc and used to smack his head in frustration. He absolutely cannot stay still and throws himself about if he has to sit on a chair and that leads me to worry about expectations down the road that he can't meet.
• going into secondary he'll be a year more mature if we delay which will hopefully mean he copes well and is less likely to follow bad behaviour. He is very much a follower at the moment for good or bad.
• get to spend another year with him enjoying time together finally. We have never been abroad since he was born as he couldn't handle things like that but he's finally turned a corner. For about a month he's been much calmer and we can see ourselves doing 'normal' things for the first time. But with school about to start that would be much more restricted
• spending a year in forest school and preschool with no big expectations. He's been going to forest school one day a week since Easter and is thriving. We think this may be what's making him calmer.
• gives him more time to grow out of toddler behaviour and mature more. We've seen a massive change just in the last month and would love him to continue in this trajectory. Would school potentially harm that progress as it's adding pressure and he copes badly with pressure?
• he currently shows no interest in 'learning' as such like phonics or counting, crafts, painting, any of that type of thing. He's not one of those kids desperate to get on to that. His interests are running, climbing and hiding under heavy cushions as much as possible. He does love PE though so would enjoy that but then he could do that at any age.

Cons

• we have a second DS who is June born so do we delay him too? He doesn't have any of his brother's temperament and seems very focussed and emotionally easy going but how would it feel to them as brothers to delay one and not the other?
• potential bullying or being picked on for being 'held back'. Obviously this is total rubbish as it's an arbitrary deadline and he has as much age in common with kids Sept - Feb in the year below as he does March - Aug in his year. But kids bully and we'd hate to have caused him to feel different or stupid.
• potentially having to play out of cohort in school sports competitions. We know there is dispensation for FA football and England Rugby but what if all his mates are on the school football team and he can't play with them and has to play year above? He may feel very left out.
• he's going to a small village school rather than our large catchment school so when he joins secondary he won't go up with many people. If he's out of cohort this may be the first thing people know (if he can't be on the football team for example) rather than going up with a big group of friends who have forever known he's out of cohort and it's ancient history.
• he is HUGE. He will likely be the tallest child whichever year he goes into but in his official cohort that will be fine as people will just laugh that he's the youngest and so big. However, he could get nasty comments etc if he's in the year below and told he's so big because he's in the wrong year. Again this is ridiculous as he's literally days from the cut off and would be exactly the same size if born a week later but people say horrid things.
• he seems 'ready' by the criteria - he's outgoing, confident, sociable, has masses of friends, great at using the toilet and dressing.

Please help me decide. I cannot stop thinking about this! I need to give his preschool an answer soon so they don't give his spot away in September if we still want it.

@Givemepickles preschools/nurseries differ as to how structured they are - my DS went to one that was mostly free play which suited him, whereas my DD went to one attached to a school that had a lot more formal learning, so really depends where your son’s nursery sits on the spectrum as to how much of a step up reception will be. They still have a lot of play but there are structured large group/class sessions on the carpet where they will be expected to sit still, focus and listen, and then learning in smaller groups at tables.

The really big step up is between reception and year 1 - where the play time reduces significantly and they move to spending majority of time at desks and much more class teaching.

Boys do mature a lot more slowly than girls in terms of school readiness at this age - your DS sounds totally normal but also sounds like he would benefit from some extra time to mature. Being a very young boy is a disadvantage for most.

That can only happen if a child has to repeat a year. In that instance the head teacher decides on their education.

If a child is delayed a year before starting school then they are protected by the Summerborn guidance from government which states the child will never move back to original cohort unless parents and head wish that in the child's best interests.

If the secondary school you've heard about has made a child skip a year then the parents can complain to the governing body. The school will then have to justify it is in the child's best interests to miss a year of education, which they cannot do, and the parents will win. Unfortunately they make it hard work which is why schools get away with it but the law is on the child's side.

Technically Reception is a continuation of Early Years Foundation stage, learning through play within a structured day with literacy and numeracy sessions. However different schools implement it with differing levels of formality. In some schools there are separate areas for EYFS and older classes. Year 1 is part of keystage 1 where more formal classroom learning starts. You need to visit to see what it looks like at the small school, if age groups are taught combined within keystage, for example, and learning differentiated by ability.

I sent both my summer borns to school with their cohort. My eldest had severe speech issues, the extra help he got was amazing. Very minor speech issues now, working ahead for reading and English and as expected for maths.
Youngest found school really hard at first but did need more than preschool. Was behind for most of reception but now in year 1 is hitting all targets. Has also had extra help.
Are the school going to offer extra help? Are the school going to make allowances for his age?

I would definitely defer.

As a PP mentioned, August borns never catch up - their A-level results are worse than their September peers. Why would you want to disadvantage your child?

In your specific child’s case it really sounds a no brainer. His concentration will improve over the next year, giving him time to mature and start reception ready, not struggling. An extra year old childhood is a gift! And given he is only a few days from the cut off he is only getting a few days more time over what a September born child gets!

I would defer. Both my kids have deferred children in their classes (both April babies) and it's never been an issue. No bullying as far as I know.
Re: sport, bear in mind that if your son is a year younger than the other children in his class, his hand eye coordination, physical dexterity etc are going to be a year behind too. You don't want to keep him in cohort and then discover he never makes it onto any teams anyway because he's the youngest.
I don't know exactly how this works for sports generally, but if his birthday is end of August he'll surely qualify for 'under 7s' or whatever for nearly all the year anyway?
If you have ADHD, there's a very good chance he has it too. I'd give him an extra year of running around in forests time.

As your kids get older, you're going to find yourself making different decisions for them both more and more often. I have one kid who has big birthday parties and one who has small days out. One who sat the 11+ and one who definitely isn't going to. One who does sport and one who does music.
"You were a really active kid who loved running around, but your brother was more interested in maths and reading." "You were always really good at making friends but we knew your brother needed to go to to school with his friends." "Your brother's neurotypical but we knew ADHD kids generally do better in the year below." It's okay to tell your children they're different people with different needs. If that's done from a place of love and respect, kids can respect that.

bear in mind that if your son is a year younger than the other children in his class,....

He will be a year younger than some of the other children in the class. If the ages are evenly distributed, there will be around five in a class of thirty with Sept/Oct birthdays.

There are never enough parents who comment who have children at the other end of the school system. By the time they reach year 10, they may not be engaged with school/education, they are then old enough to finish compulsory school. Exam results are one thing and open doors, but children outgrow school as well and want to move on. There will hopefully be more research into long term impacts as those who were delayed comes through (the first cohort are only just starting to be near the end of secondary where the more widespread ability to delay was possible). You need to treat both children as individuals- I know twins who were put into different years, for individual reasons.

I struggle with this & I’m the mother of an August born (now adult) DC. Where does it end? The August babies all delay, then the July babies, then the June birthdays & so on. What happens when we get back to the August babies?

children outgrow school as well and want to move on. There will hopefully be more research into long term impacts as those who were delayed comes through....

I've said similar on other threads about deferring. I shall be interested in research into the opinions of the children who were deferred as they reach the end of their schooldays.

If you defer a just turned four year old, at the other end you'll have a 19 yo who has another year of school before he or she can move on into adult life.

I believe children only have to be in education until 18 and it doesn't have to be school, can be an apprenticeship.

Also, my DS wouldn't be 19 with another year of compulsory education. He'd turn 18 in the August of his final year just as September borns would turn 18 in that final year and so on. So he can still leave at the same age as if I didn't delay, just depends what he's doing with himself at the time. My DH and I aren't keen on uni as it is now so aren't pushing for that. No idea what DS will want of course.

Is it as simple as just "deciding"?

I clerk for schools boards within a Trust. Parents have to apply for delayed admission and it is almost always declined. The only ones I have seen accepted are where the child was premature and there is medical evidence to show he is behind his "birth age".

Maybe it's different in LA schools or different Trusts?

Yes trusts are different as they have their own governing bodies. Though the law says parents can delay just because a child is summer born. If a trust refuses then the parent has to complain and if they go far enough the trust will have to give in as it's the law. Obviously, most parents don't do this or don't want to go to a school that's so against it.

In my town the schools are all governed by the LA and its an automatic yes for summer born applications as parents have fought this battle already.

The Trusts don't have to give in. I've clerked a couple of meetings where the appeals have gone as far as the DfE, and all the Trusts have been instructed to do is consider additional evidence....which in both cases led to the original decision being upheld.

I have a 19 year old August born and the choice wasn’t available when he started but I would have happily pursued the option had it been available.

In the long term things turned out fine for him- he got his GCSEs, made friends etc but he would have had an easier time in the younger years if he’d had an extra year at nursery. Reception was fine academically as the sitting down is like 15 minutes of phonics, 15 minutes for a story sort of thing but the expectations ramp one in year one and there’s much less time to play and lots mor sitting at a desk tasks. Ds is very compliant but found it hard- I later found out he had ADHD.

Oh really? That's interesting - I stand corrected then.

Thank you for sharing your son's experience. This is similar to what I keep hearing. Just today my hairdresser was telling me how hard her July born DD is finding school and how exhausted she was throughout reception to the point she had to go to bed at 6pm each night. To me that just shows some children aren't ready at that stage for what is being expected of them and I don't want my DS to go through that if he doesn't have to. I think like your DS, he would manage either way (I hope) but I think home life could be really tough at times if he goes in at 4 years old and that will be pretty miserable for us all.

Can I ask what signs he had of ADHD at a young age? I wish I had a crystal ball to know if DS does have ADHD as then I could feel more confident delaying.

Thank you for this. That is really insightful. Because my children are still so young I hadn't really taken on board yet how differently we might have to treat them as they grow up. They are already very different characters, chalk and cheese really.

I love the explanations you've written. You've put into words the reasons that we have for delaying DS1 but not DS2 so thank you.

As a teacher, I would defer a summer born if I had one. The advantages of being older were still apparent in my Year 4 classes, albeit not as pronounced as in Reception. Every teacher I know (who didn’t struggle with fertility) deliberately avoided having summer borns themselves.

Anecdotally, I’ve never heard people who deferred their children say they regret it. I do hear some people who didn’t say they wish they had.

Thank you. I think we've decided to apply to delay DS1! It's very helpful hearing from a teacher's perspective as the current school system still feels a bit of a mystery to us.

Would you also recommend delaying DS2 as a June born? He seems to have much more focus and patience than DS1 so that's made us think it won't be as necessary, though the emotional and social issues around being so young may still be an issue.

I’ve got 5 summer born children, they all
started a few weeks after they turned 4 except one who started just before his 5th birthday due to the council rules where we lived at the time. I didn’t find it particularly benefitted him and the other 4 have all done well. One was below expectation all through primary school but then did great at uni, my youngest was a bundle or energy and prone to meltdowns, never imagined he’d sit still or have the focus for learning ti read and write but he behaves wonderfully in school and has excelled academically from the start. I just found the first year especially they were totally exhausted the second they came out of school and needed something to eat and a bit of chill time