Advice needed after no secondary school offer from preferred choices

[Atlanta04]

We applied for 6 schools and unfortunately My daughter was not offered any preferred place of secondary school, I have refused the alternative offer of the undersubscribed school place. The position of where my daughter is on the waiting list show that she will not be offered a place and our only chance of a decent school is winning an appeal. Is there anyone who could give advice please?

😂

She's got nothing. She's made a huge mistake and has made it very difficult for her child to be in school on September, and is now trying to make out it was her plan all along to home ed or send to independent...

It wasn't hostile, it was realistic. The OP clearly didn't understand what the implications of refusing a school place were or how appeals work...

No she doesn't, however is that a crime? Whilst most of the posts are helpful, the ones calling the OP stupid are less so. School admissions are complicated. I was having a conversation recently with a neighbour who is a SENCO and didn't understand the equal preference system. Hopefully the OP understands more now and will reflect on whether her grounds for appeal are sufficient to be worth it.

It’s certainly unusual not to be offered any of six preferences – which suggests to me that you listed six schools where you were actually unlikely to be offered a place. That’s a shame although not knowing where you are, it may be that there was no school that was acceptable where you did stand a high chance of an offer.

Anyway that’s done; what you need to do now, I agree with PPs, is go back to the LA and accept the offered school, or at least look round it. What other schools have spaces – are there any you did not consider but that would be better than the allocated one?

If HE as outlined by @TeenToTwenties is possible for you then you can do that and hope that a place comes up. Certainly as time moves on and your DC is in year 8/9, fewer parents are willing to move their DC so you may be lucky with a WL place. But do you want your DC out of school? HE is an excellent choice for a whole range of reasons for many DC (I have worked with lots of HE DC), but it needs to be a choice based on the needs of the child rather than simply bc you don't like the offered school.

There's some good advice here (and on many other threads on this board) about what sorts of things will make a difference at appeal. Have a look and by all means post your arguments here and knowledgable PPs will be able to advise.

But if private is not possible for ££ reasons then your choices are to HE (also costly as a rule esp at secondary; not just bc one parent may need to go part time or stop work, but also bc you will need either tutors or online schooling) or accept a place at a local school that has spaces.

ETA sorry massive x post with @Atlanta04

So what advice are you looking for?
It seems you want people to agree that you are right, if you are prepared to home school then I don't see the problem.
On another note, it's important to understand the admission policy of each school, so if your child doesn't meet the criteria of each school then s/he won't be considered. And if all the places are taken then that's it. There are limits to how many children can be admitted.

Does the secondary have a school bus your child could catch? They are quite pricy but would negate the need to walk through parks in dangerous areas.

At my DD’s secondary the canteen was open for breakfast so it might be worth checking that out because then you could take your oldest first then the youngest. Or is there a breakfast club at the primary school for the little one?

How can you say I got nothing, you have no clue and yet you seem so certain on presumption🤣🤣

i didn’t come on here for hostility but possibly other mums sharing supportive advice if they have been through similar situation or appeal etc… it’s clear some people should educate themselves on manners instead of being know it all’s with only presumptions as knowledge!

Because you refused a school place and clearly didn't know that meant you were out of the system and now aren't on any waiting lists.

You have provided no reasons for appeal so, it looks like you thought the values and safety were valid reasons to bring up in appeal. So noone can advise you, except yo tell you that you have no grounds for appeal.

You seem to not understand that you now have to find the place for your child. And have seemingly just added home ed as a last resort, rather than a considered reason that is in the best interests of your child.

You have said nothing about your plans to home educate and how that would work.

So yes, you have nothing.

Any way, I hope it works out for you.

Ask for a list of schools that have spaces. There might be one further away but with a safer/easier journey.

There are two ways you can win an appeal for a secondary school place.

You can win by showing that a mistake has been made and your daughter should have been admitted to the appeal school, e.g. she has been placed in the wrong admissions category or the home to school distance is wrong. It does not sound from your posts like you have any evidence of a mistake. However, if you do have evidence, this is the strongest kind of appeal.

If no mistake has been made, the only way to win is on what is known as the balance of prejudice. This means you have to show that the disadvantage to your daughter from not being admitted outweighs any problems the school will face from having to cope with an additional pupil. The disadvantage could be subjects or extra-curricular activities the school offers that she will not be able to access without being admitted and that are particularly relevant to her, for example.

The panel will be looking for things that disadvantage your daughter, not things that are a problem for you. For example, they won't be interested in transport or childcare issues - that is regarded as a problem for you, and children of secondary school age are generally able to get themselves to and from school without needing parental supervision.

Remember that you are appealing for the school you want, not against the school you've been offered. Arguments about the allocated school not aligning with your values are unlikely to fly, and the panel may well disagree with your view that the journey to and from the allocated school is unsafe. I would also avoid talking about an "LA dictatorship". That won't help you and it may make the panel less inclined to give you the benefit of any doubt.

As others have said, you need to be ready for the possibility that you will lose all your appeals and have a plan B. You may get another offer through the LA, but that is not guaranteed. They have already fulfilled their duty by offering the place you rejected, so you will probably only get an offer if a place comes up via the waiting list. If they don't, you will have to either home educate or send your daughter to an independent school. Even if you are happy with those alternatives, I would have recommended waiting to reject the offered place until your appeals had been heard. The fact you have rejected the place offered won't help you at appeal and could make it harder for you to win.

We went through an appeal for secondary school for my DD and were successful. The odds are low through. There were 28 appeals and only 5 successful.

The first thing we did was accept the school offered and go on the waiting list for the school we wanted. The basis of the appeal was what my DD could offer the school rather than why we didn’t want the school offered. I spent hours on it and every point was backed up with evidence in support.

It isn’t easy - but we knew she would excel in that school (she did). But at no point did we make negative comments about the school originally offered.

Did you apply for the nearest school? What was the maximum distance they allocated places to, are you closer? That would be a grounds for appeal. Any out of borough were long shots to start with so look at the in borough choices and ensure the entry criteria was fairly applied to your child. If it was you do not have grounds to appeal those schools so it’s a case of casting your eyes further afield to see where spaces remain or have short lists. People do move from offer day to September, our soon to be new neighbours have an 11 year old moving from London for starters, they were asking about schools when we met them and were bemused when we said there was one!

It may be different where you are, but where I am, the only appeals that succeed are those where there has been an error by the LA in the allocation process. Grounds such as travel/ transport/ getting siblings to school/ friendships/ interests are not really considered as these are subjective.
@prh47bridge ’s post is really helpful. It may be best to identify one school nearby and focus on that. The LA will not accept an assertion that any school is better or worse than another so any comments/points on your perceived alignment of values will not help you. You need to make a positive case for one school really.
Be prepared for your plan B for September for sure.

I agree actually some PPs have been a bit harsh. There’s no need to call anyone stupid, surely. And I am pretty sure you can be on school WLs even if you have declined the LA’s offered space?

Some people have suggested that an appeal is only winnable if a mistake has been made but as @prh47bridge posts, that’s not the case. Yes a mistake is the strongest ground, but others may be enough. I suggest you read prh's post carefully as they have a huge amount of knowledge on this issue and have helped many MNers.

However based on what you have written @Atlanta04 I don’t see any grounds for an appeal. You mention a dangerous journey to the allocated school and nothing else that I can see. If you are happy to share the grounds there are a lot of posters who can advise how strong they are. You don’t have to obviously, but based on the info you have supplied I am not sure what else anyone can say. Many people have offered good advice.

The title of the first post was ‘advice needed’.

Advice has been offered, even if you don’t accept it. I wonder if you thought that posters would be able to advise you how to circumvent the system and ensure the LA give your daughter a place at the school you want.

Some experienced and knowledgeable posters in the field have explained how the process works and the likelihood of an appeal succeeding. Given that the odds are very much against a successful appeal I think your options are to remain on waiting lists and to research options for educating your child at home. Are there groups locally you can contact? Online provision and tutors? Social groups?

The LA has no further responsibility to allocate a school for your daughter.

But, she won't be on the waiting lists as she's effectively opted out of the system?

actually we are on the waiting lists so that is false information

I don't think you are taken off waiting lists if you refuse original offer

Yes that was my understanding too, as I mentioned.

She will be on waiting lists. Rejecting an offer does not remove you from waiting lists, nor does it affect your position on waiting lists.

What is it about the school that doesn't align with your values?

Hammersmith & Fulham?
There are always schools with places but admittedly the most popular schools can be very oversubscribed. Only you can decide whether no school is better than a school you don’t want.

Were any of the six realistic choices based on past years’ admissions? It is all very well to dismiss the offered one but the LA are then under no obligation to provide an alternative. You can go on waiting lists and/or appeal but have no guarantee of a positive outcome. Have you gone on lists for other schools apart from your six originals or asked which other schools may be undersubscribed, even in other boroughs?

I live and work in the area - there is a lot of movement between now and September - and even after the start of term. Families moving out or area or city, going private which is close to 50% in LBHF - so don't give up hope. Even popular schools get families not turning up on the first day - so definitely go on waiting lists of any schools you would be prepared to accept. School staff will be back in work next week so I would get on the phones.

Can you tell us roughly where you live in the borough? Posters may be able to recommend schools in neighbouring LAs if so - so WCC or RBKC is you are north for example.