Really Really don't know what to do about DD

[NigellaTheUndomesticGoddess]

DD is 10. This whole school year she has been unhappy at school. She went through a phase of having to be carried in screaming every day for a couple of months. Now she will go in but I have to go in with her every day and hand her over to her teacher.
She is bright but won't work. she says she thinks school is boring. I honestly don't think she has learnt anything or progressed at all this year (although teacher says she is average and holding her own).
I work full time odd shifts. When DH or my M takes her to school they have to do the same and go in with her.
She has lots of friends who just accept her and get on fine. There was an issue with another girl who 'bulied' DD but this other girl has now been asked to leave.

I have considered moving schools but We live in a fairly rural area. DDs school is the only primary within walking distance so logistically to get her to any other school would be a problem particularly when I'm at work and M takes her. I also think that it wouldn't solve any of her issues. She just hates school.

I just don't know what to do. she's miserable. I'm miserable because I make her go. Will things improve next year with a new teacher? will she grow out of it? I feel all torn in two. I want her to be happy but can't because she hates it there so much.
I left her again this morning sobbing.

She's in year 5 or 6? Was she happy last year or just this school year? I think you have to make an appt to go into school and discuss in more detail with teacher/head.

She is in yr 5. has never particularly liked school but was always happy to go.
I know. i need to talk to head again.

10 is quite old for this sort of behaviour.

I think that, before changing school, you have to have a more informed opinion about whether it is (a) that particular school (b) school in general (c) your daughter that is the problem.

The first step would be for you to have a meeting with the teacher and the head together and see if you get somewhere. Then perhaps an educational psychologist referral might be appropriate.

poor dd and poor you! what a nightmare to go through this every morning. I agree with KR you must go and speak to the head and try to get to the root of the problem. Maybe things will improve when this girl leaves? Does she like her current teacher? So difficult.......

It's unusual for a 10 year old to be so anti-school - by 10 they've usually worked out there's not much they can actually do about it.

Girls of 10 and 11 can be absolute little cows to each other - all those pre-pubescent hormones surging around etc. My instinct is to wonder if there are friendship problems that she's reluctant to tell you about. I agree that it's certainly worth a long chat with the teacher and maybe talking to her friends' parents and seeing if they know about any background stuff that's happening. Poor you - what a nightmare.

We did have an appointment with CAMHS back in January which i didn't find particularly useful as they thought DD was quite sane.
I aslo know what DD is like. she is difficult and stroppy and also slightly odd so I do have sympathy with school when they are trying to deal with her.
How do I request an educational psychologist referral? through GP or school?

through school would be quickest I imagine...make that appt to see head

Has the bully actually left yet? you say she has been asked to leave......If she is still there, she may still be causing trouble. Ten year old girls can be really spiteful and nasty. I have experienced it when my own dd was bullied. Thankfully it was sorted out.

Please listen to your dd. Give her space to confide in you.

Other girl has already left. Will ask to see head again.
Just to add into the mix DD has had ongoing unspecific health stuff. She has constant tummy pains and feels sick all the time. how much of it is anxiety or physical i just don't know. she also doesn't eat properly.
The only thing she will say when asked about school stuff is that she doesn't want to go because she feels sick.

Definitely mention all that health stuff to the head and ask for the ed psych referral ASAP.

Stomach ache and feeling sick go hand in hand with anxiety. They form a vicious circle. Once she gets herself into a state about going to school the physical symptoms will cut in and this will make her even more anxious. You really need to get an appt. with head/teacher etc and maybe she needs to talk to a counseller, 10 years old is plenty old enough.

I don't know the history here. However as a teacher I do know about "school phobics".

Some children are just like this, for whatever reason. We always have a few in our school. If it is a real problem, I think (but am not sure) they can be educated off site. However you would need an assessment for this.

Sometimes they will return after time out. It is a recognised condition. If it is causing your dd this much stress she sounds a classic case. It would fall under special needs, so the LEA do have a responsibility to help here.

this might help

I think you need to bring this up with the school. I just typed school refuser/phobic into search engine, and loads came up. The link I put in was one I recognised.

Good luck, and don't worry. It is a recognised condition

I haven't read all the thread, but I just wanted to say, I hated school.

I didn't dare play up - my mum was far too strict, but I walked into school with tears in my eyes most mornings.

I can't remember how old I was but I was at primary school (Juniors) so between 7-11.

I just hated school. I've already decided that if DS hates it like I did, I'll home school him if needs be. There was nothing particular. I just hated it.

FWIW, I did really well at school, but didn't enjoy education until I went to Uni.

I feel sorry for your dd; it sounds like anxiety to me. I got migraines from the age of 6 because of anxiety and a lot was to do with school; I only recognise that now with hindsight. I hope you get something sorted for both your sakes x

I also don't think changing schools would help . Well , it may, but you might find the problem follows you. Also she will be going to senior school in another year, so it will mean 2 changes. I really hate to say this, but I wonder if it isn't sorted out now, it could get worse in Senior school...sorry

It sounds like something has happened to trigger her fear, and although the trigger has gone, she still associates the school with the feeling of fear. Could she just do an hour a day for a week and then 2 hours, and then 3 and build it up. Isn't graduated exposure like this used in phobic situations. CBT is the name of the method (I think )

Gosh, this has brought back a few memories:

I just want to add: I really really really really HATED school.

Def. was at it's worst around your DD's age but I hated it from day one (aged 4?) till aged 16. Got a bit better doing my A Levls.

I got 12 O Levels above Grade C, so I still did well.

Even now, I can't articulate why I hated school so much, but I just hated the whole trying to fit in.

I'm 36, BTW... And I can still remember just how much I hated every day.

I know she was a lot younger at the time, but my 2nd DD showed these symptoms, sick, stomach pains, headaches, even waking on a Saturday and saying she felt too ill to go to school. She was 4.5 and in reception. It turned out two of the girls in her class had chosen to bully her- she was kicked, hit, punched, cut, watered and her school photgraph shows a big bruise on the side of her head from these evil little cows- they were the same age too. She hadn't been there for even the first half of term, was still doing half days when we found out what was going on. We followed the whole teacher, parent support person route, and in the end removed her. She still suffers flashbacks now at 8 and it is heartbreaking to see her crumple at these memories.
I'll never forgive those 2 for what they did to my baby, and never forgive myself for putting her in school in the first place. she's not a bad kid, fun, cheerful, considerate, helpful, yet they chose her to pick on.
Sorry to ramble but it makes me so angry when I read about bullies. And people who have never been there just shrug and say it's just kids.
Do you think your daughter could be still being bullied? Or do you think the whole experience with the other bully has made her feel others might bully her too? What is she like out of school and during the holidays?
I really feel for her, and for you too, but please remember that childhood is too short to waste on sadness.

Thanks for all your replies.
She is an anxious person so i do think it is anxiety related. I am also all to aware that this whole crappy situation may just get worse when she hits secondary school. I know because I always hated school so when I realised at 13 that no one noticed if i was there or not i just stopped going. I'd go off to school, mother woud leave for work, i'd go in through the back door and stay there.
still managed to pass a shed load of exams but it wasn't a happy experience.
DD is heading this way. she just hates school.
This morning i am too tired and miserable to argue. I tok her to school, she cried, i gave her the choice to stay or not. she asked me to take her home so i have.
She is now embarrased and upset with herself for not being able to go.
I will phone the head teacher when i can talk without crying and ask for more advice.

IMO if she doesn't go to school every day she will always feel like an outsider and the anxiety will stay.

She won't know what's been going on socially. She won't be there to work together with children in her class on project-type tasks. She'll feel alone and left out.

Just remember everytime she yells loud enough for you to let her stay home she is in effect excluding herslef from friendship groups. It is making it much harder to go back to school.

IMO the fact that you hated and didn't always go to school is prob affecting your response to her distress. Deep inside you I bet there is a remnant of those feelings so that when she's hysterical there is a voice in your haed saying "I don't blame you dear, school is crap".

And I bet at some level she knows that school is crap because the feelings you had about school are swirling around somewhere (I don't mean literally!). It's not your fault but you prob need to be a little more positive, calm and determined. And never give in.

Don't be angry with her. Make today the most boring day ever. No TV if she doesn't go to school. No going out with you. Get some school books and insist she does some work.

Every school day at home should be dead boring.

Talk to the head about a postive re-inforcement programme - reward her for attendance. Special certificate etc.

And make an agreement between you, your dd and the head (or another teacher she likes) that next year in year 6 she will go every day.

Good luck for the rest of the day.

If she had yelled I could have made her go. but she sobbed and is genuinely miserable. I've done the yelling, the forcing in, the carrying in and leaving hysterical. It didn't solve anything.

I would seriously think about changing schools

even for a year

would it be at all possible?

Ds1 was bullied for a year at primary school. Without going into too much detail, the school was absolutely hopeless at dealing with it. He was a very bright child who was well able to understand that the staff were colluding with the bully, the head was two faced and ineffective, and basically he was so shocked and miserable by the whole situation that I took him out of the school. This was at the end of year 4.
Everyone in that school was telling him, and me, that he was the one with the problem, I was told to take him for counselling, which I did. It wasn't much help.

Within 2 weeks of being at the new school he was a different child.

I just want to say that it isn't always the child who is the problem. It could be the school, and a change might be the answer.

Very rarely do bullies work in isolation. They usually have their little gang of followers. The really clever manipulative ones manage to get the staff colluding with it too, so just removing the ringleader doesn't always solve the problem IME.

really not possible to change schools. next nearest one is full (i checked) the one after that is about half hour drive away - couldn't get her there when i'm at work. i have to work to pay the mortgage.
am stuck.

I am so sorry. It is a horrible situation to be in.