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Education

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A Labour minister has just tried to explain on LBC why U.K. society requires young people who attend uni to pay a graduate tax

206 replies

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 01/02/2026 19:59

And I’m confused. He was trying to say it was a student loan and then accepted it was a graduate tax and that society deemed that the right thing because they were more likely to out earn those who didn’t attend uni.

I thought that was what income tax was for alongside all the other taxes. Are uni courses subsidised by the government. Is it that?

OP posts:
MidnightPatrol · 01/02/2026 21:08

Ohfuckrucksack · 01/02/2026 20:10

Given the number of graduates struggling to get any job, the future prospects of decent pay is likely to look very different in the future.

Those who are in low paid work - their interest accumulation will be greater than the amount they pay off - impacting their finances for their whole working life.

The data on 'better pay' is from some time ago and is skewed by high paid workers in sectors like finance, usually from wealthy families.

Work has gone back to 'who you know' not 'what you know' and it's likely to get worse. The FT in their video 'jobocalypse' suggested that parents should take a leaf out of wealthy medieval parent's books and pay for their children to be trained in a trade.

Young people have been pushed into university by the secondary school system without exploration of all possible options for each student.

Student money is used to keep towns afloat - the money pouring in to rental properties, bars as well as the university itself and the jobs that this allows means that new students are always needed (preferably from overseas as they pay even more)

“Work has gone back to 'who you know' not 'what you know' and it's likely to get worse.”

I don’t agree with this - not in the highly paid sectors you refer to like finance. They tend to be pretty merirocratic - as it’s about the people who can make the most money…!

Better connected kids may get internships etc, but they won’t progress much in careers based on who they know.

Woo383040 · 01/02/2026 21:18

Having a student loan and paying it back is fine. The interest rates are obscene and in my opinion unfair though.

Rumplestiltz · 01/02/2026 21:18

Very good point made up thread about the way students prop up entire towns. I was in Lancaster this weekend with my son for an offer holder day, we both really liked it. The town seems very student oriented - pubs, restaurants, student housing. What would happen to Lancaster the town if that university collapsed?

thedramaQueen · 01/02/2026 21:37

Serafee · 01/02/2026 20:26

They do owe society something - the money they borrowed plus interest.

We simply cannot pay for everything. The country can’t afford it.

Best not start saying that otherwise they might be a lot of pensioners without pensions… and free travel and no free TV licence and winter fuel allowance… it’s interesting how we can afford to pay for all of this!

MiniMidiMaxi · 01/02/2026 22:08

As a parent with a child about to go to university, I am grateful that the student loan system has changed to plan 5 - interest added as RPI only, albeit with the maximum time before write-off lasting for longer, from 30 to 40 years. The previous version, Plan 2, feels much more of a burden. It’s funny that it’s blown up as an issue when the system for current students has already changed (for the better imo). I suspect the impact of Plan 2 was masked by years of low inflation, and the impact is only now becoming apparent, and heightened by the lower uplift in pay that grads typically get in comparison to the past. Who knows if that’s an ongoing rather than temporary thing.

Nat6999 · 01/02/2026 22:24

My ds is in his first year of a 4 year Mplan degree in Urban Studies & planning, half of his lecturers are on strike against redundancies so there are no lectures in their subjects yet he will still be charged full tuition fees, there should be a refund for what he has missed out on. In the future there will be a national scandal on Student Loans, I saw one young man who had been paying £10k a year back for 4 years on his student loan but now owed £35k more than he originally borrowed, it's like a legal loan shark what they are charging.

MidnightMeltdown · 01/02/2026 22:30

It’s not a tax. If it was a tax then people from rich families wouldn’t be able to get out of it by having parents pay all fees up front.

Young people have been shafted now require a degree for any mediocre job that previously would have been done by a school leaver. Also, grade inflation has got worse and worse, so it’s extremely difficult to tell from a students grades whether or not they are actually any good. This means that young people are stuck with having to pay tens of thousands for degrees that mean very little.

soupyspoon · 01/02/2026 22:31

Far too many young adults go to university. There simply arent the jobs for them and people should get a degree for degree necessary careers, not just because its the done thing or its a bit of fun.

We should be training up kids much earlier into practical skills tht still exist (for now) in careers where we need workers.

PinkPlantCase · 01/02/2026 22:34

I am sure the university bubble will burst at some point.

I agree with PP it’s the interest that’s a complete joke. It is what makes the loan impossible for the vast majority of graduates to pay it back.

I worked it out once. I’m an Architect, had to do 5 years at uni to become an Architect. Plan 2 loan. I would have needed to earn 62k from the day I graduated and have no breaks for it to be possible to pay back loan within the 30 year period.

As it happens only very senior Architects or directors earn 62k and I’ve had 2 maternity leaves.

Pistachiocake · 01/02/2026 22:36

Serafee · 01/02/2026 21:03

The reality is we need massive consolidation in the market which would cut costs. There are too many places offering degree courses. We then need to be persuading those with less than impressive grades to learn a trade or skill rather than doing a degree with CCD in a subject which isn’t going to improve their earning potential.

But people would view that as “unfair” and a step backwards so it won’t happen.

It would be better to offer a year of training at a "uni" type places. Young people could learn valuable life skills (living without parents, sharing taking bins out and organising their own bills etc), spend some time on either a trade or academic learning, and spend a certain amount of time doing some kind of work or service for the community.
It doesn't solve the main issue that there just aren't the jobs these days, though. Yes, in the twentieth century having a degree might have made finding a good job very easy, but these days it can be hard to find any job. There are polite, sociable and hard-working youngsters, with good academic qualifications who can't get anything, to the amazement of their professional parents who could walk into most jobs at their age.

Serafee · 01/02/2026 23:28

Rumplestiltz · 01/02/2026 21:18

Very good point made up thread about the way students prop up entire towns. I was in Lancaster this weekend with my son for an offer holder day, we both really liked it. The town seems very student oriented - pubs, restaurants, student housing. What would happen to Lancaster the town if that university collapsed?

Lancaster is a very student based city as is Durham, St Andrews etc. But all three are top ten ranking universities. They’re not going anywhere.

in Lancaster it’s the university of Cumbria that is more at risk but it could merge with Lancaster and consolidate the market (albeit that they currently different types of student).

CactusSwoonedEnding · 02/02/2026 00:30

Decades ago, university was the privilege of the wealthy,most people didn't have a degree and most jobs didn't need a degree. The privileged few who went to university got the top jobs and got to be in the privileged wealthiest who sent their offspring to university and so the privilege was baked in generation after generation.

Then came along the golden age of grammar schools and full grants. Ordinary people from non-wealthy families could go to university completely for free and could end up in the top jobs. New universities were founded and started to thrive. Gradually two things happened. Because there were more graduates around, more jobs started specifying that they wanted a graduate. But meanwhile the country was being de-industrialised and youth unemployment started growing. Youth unemployment coukd be significantly affected by encouraging even more young people into university - a student is not unemployed, and there's a growing number of jobs asking for graduates.

But as the 1990s drew to a close it became clear that the cost to universities to educate each student was beginning to significantly exceed the amount that government would pay. The universities had been trying to address this by charging much higher fees to overseas students but that wasn't enough. There had to start being a contribution from the students, which started out as a mere £1000 per year -means tested so those without the ability to pay paid nothing, and grants for living expenses were replaced with loans. The government was still paying most of the cost, the fees were just a contribution to make up the amount the government paid to an amount that the universities could afford to operate with. The fees were relatively modest and in keeping with the higher salaries that graduates could usually command. At the same time a whole bunch of colleges were granted the right to call themselves universities. These institutions were focused on teaching rather than research so theoretically could have lower running costs.

The £1000 became £3000 but as the number of students spiralled up and up it was getting more and more unaffordable to keep it all spinning, and it was really clear that something had to give. In the run-up to the 2010 election it was a hot topic - universities desperately needed their income to catch up with their costs, but the idea of pushing fees further up was unacceptable to the left and not policy for the centrist libdems either. They had plans to reduce or eliminate fees and replace them with a graduate tax, which would ensure that those who got the high-paying top-5%-income jobs paid heavily for the gift of the education that got them there. Pledges were paraded on TV in the run up to the election saying "no increase in university fees". But then the outcome of that election was no overall majority and the coalition government was born.

Two parties with opposing views on what should happen had to work out a compromise. The compromise was to create a scheme for loans combined with fees going up to an eyewatering £9000, and the loan repayments system structured to mimic a graduate tax in all but name.

The justification for this remained the higher salaries that graduates earn but this difference was continuing to erode. Yes there were still some graduates going into really well-paid jobs but the supply of graduates had really well outstripped demand and although the average graduate salary remained higher skewed by a small number of very high salaries, the vast majority of graduates weren't earning very much more than people of the same age group who didn't have a degree.

In theory this shouldn't matter. When the big change to £9000 fees and massive loans happended, the average uk salary was £26,500 and someone on minimum wage was on about £11,000, and the threshold to start repaying your loan was set at £21,000 so you only started paying if you were getting close to that average wage and significantly above minimum wage - ie only those whose education boosted them to be significantly better off than if they hadn't got a degree were paying anything. The less lucky ones who did their degree and then ended up in an ordinary job on an ordinary wage not much better than their non-graduate peers wouldn't pay anything.

If all these figures had kept pace with inflation since 2012 the current fees would be £13,795 but you wouldn't have to start paying anything until you were earning £32,189pa. Instead, fees have been kept artificially low, still not much more than £9000 (a small increase was recently agreed but not enough, universities are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy) but you have to start paying at a salary of £25,000 when the full time salary on minimum wage is £22,500 ish so you have to start paying even if your degree brought you absolutely no benefit whatsoever

Which is why the whole system is broken. It is built on the premise that getting a degree gets you a higher salary, so it's right for you to contribute more. However, that premise isn't true and those who didn't benefit much are paying disproportionately and getting very poor value for money.

You can't really tell, with a random sample of 100 reasonably bright 18 year olds, which 5 will end up earning £100kpa+ thanks to their university education and which will end up in a bog standard job on a less-than-average salary that isn't much more than if they hadn't bothered. It's a gamble. In a civilised society when it's not possible to properly assess the risks and outcomes, the ethical thing to do is to even-up the score with a progressive taxation system where the ones who win the gamble subsidise the ones who lose. The right thing to do would be to write off all student loans and place the whole load of paying the same total burden of revenue into an integrated tax system.

PinkPlantCase · 02/02/2026 07:21

Thank you for the explainer @CactusSwoonedEnding

Theolittle · 02/02/2026 07:28

thedramaQueen · 01/02/2026 20:14

Student loans system has been an absolute disaster.

HE is in crisis, many young people have been ripped off… and someone somewhere is making money from this system. I’m so cross we’ve done this to young people.

Overseas students used to supplement falling funds and frozen fees as they paid more. Now we don’t want immigrants so made the visas harder so their money coming in has vastly reduced - it’s a big factor. Also lots of degrees are not what students need to get employment. HE sector will have to downsize or start providing what employers want

Serafee · 02/02/2026 07:37

CactusSwoonedEnding · 02/02/2026 00:30

Decades ago, university was the privilege of the wealthy,most people didn't have a degree and most jobs didn't need a degree. The privileged few who went to university got the top jobs and got to be in the privileged wealthiest who sent their offspring to university and so the privilege was baked in generation after generation.

Then came along the golden age of grammar schools and full grants. Ordinary people from non-wealthy families could go to university completely for free and could end up in the top jobs. New universities were founded and started to thrive. Gradually two things happened. Because there were more graduates around, more jobs started specifying that they wanted a graduate. But meanwhile the country was being de-industrialised and youth unemployment started growing. Youth unemployment coukd be significantly affected by encouraging even more young people into university - a student is not unemployed, and there's a growing number of jobs asking for graduates.

But as the 1990s drew to a close it became clear that the cost to universities to educate each student was beginning to significantly exceed the amount that government would pay. The universities had been trying to address this by charging much higher fees to overseas students but that wasn't enough. There had to start being a contribution from the students, which started out as a mere £1000 per year -means tested so those without the ability to pay paid nothing, and grants for living expenses were replaced with loans. The government was still paying most of the cost, the fees were just a contribution to make up the amount the government paid to an amount that the universities could afford to operate with. The fees were relatively modest and in keeping with the higher salaries that graduates could usually command. At the same time a whole bunch of colleges were granted the right to call themselves universities. These institutions were focused on teaching rather than research so theoretically could have lower running costs.

The £1000 became £3000 but as the number of students spiralled up and up it was getting more and more unaffordable to keep it all spinning, and it was really clear that something had to give. In the run-up to the 2010 election it was a hot topic - universities desperately needed their income to catch up with their costs, but the idea of pushing fees further up was unacceptable to the left and not policy for the centrist libdems either. They had plans to reduce or eliminate fees and replace them with a graduate tax, which would ensure that those who got the high-paying top-5%-income jobs paid heavily for the gift of the education that got them there. Pledges were paraded on TV in the run up to the election saying "no increase in university fees". But then the outcome of that election was no overall majority and the coalition government was born.

Two parties with opposing views on what should happen had to work out a compromise. The compromise was to create a scheme for loans combined with fees going up to an eyewatering £9000, and the loan repayments system structured to mimic a graduate tax in all but name.

The justification for this remained the higher salaries that graduates earn but this difference was continuing to erode. Yes there were still some graduates going into really well-paid jobs but the supply of graduates had really well outstripped demand and although the average graduate salary remained higher skewed by a small number of very high salaries, the vast majority of graduates weren't earning very much more than people of the same age group who didn't have a degree.

In theory this shouldn't matter. When the big change to £9000 fees and massive loans happended, the average uk salary was £26,500 and someone on minimum wage was on about £11,000, and the threshold to start repaying your loan was set at £21,000 so you only started paying if you were getting close to that average wage and significantly above minimum wage - ie only those whose education boosted them to be significantly better off than if they hadn't got a degree were paying anything. The less lucky ones who did their degree and then ended up in an ordinary job on an ordinary wage not much better than their non-graduate peers wouldn't pay anything.

If all these figures had kept pace with inflation since 2012 the current fees would be £13,795 but you wouldn't have to start paying anything until you were earning £32,189pa. Instead, fees have been kept artificially low, still not much more than £9000 (a small increase was recently agreed but not enough, universities are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy) but you have to start paying at a salary of £25,000 when the full time salary on minimum wage is £22,500 ish so you have to start paying even if your degree brought you absolutely no benefit whatsoever

Which is why the whole system is broken. It is built on the premise that getting a degree gets you a higher salary, so it's right for you to contribute more. However, that premise isn't true and those who didn't benefit much are paying disproportionately and getting very poor value for money.

You can't really tell, with a random sample of 100 reasonably bright 18 year olds, which 5 will end up earning £100kpa+ thanks to their university education and which will end up in a bog standard job on a less-than-average salary that isn't much more than if they hadn't bothered. It's a gamble. In a civilised society when it's not possible to properly assess the risks and outcomes, the ethical thing to do is to even-up the score with a progressive taxation system where the ones who win the gamble subsidise the ones who lose. The right thing to do would be to write off all student loans and place the whole load of paying the same total burden of revenue into an integrated tax system.

I agree with this right up to the last part. It's far too simplistic and idealistic.

You simple cannot keep taxing and taxing those who do well and wiping off debt of those who don't.

It may be that those who don't do well in their careers are just unfortunate or that they spent their whole time at university partying or that they are lazy or that they have behaviours which mean they don't hold down jobs, or that they are dishonest and are dismissed, or that they should never have gone to university in the first place because they weren't really bright enough to complete a degree course to a high standard, or that they decide not to work because their family set up is such that they don't need to, or that they decide selling drugs is more lucrative or that they work in a family business which pays them a low PAYE salary (but funds them in other ways), or that they end up in jail, or that they win the lottery and cant be bothered ever to work.

You can't expect those who are successful to fund those who are not.

A choice is made at age 18 (which is arguably too young in many cases) to either go to university or not to go. The default for many is just to go - in many cases not because they have a deep desire to keep studying but because they think they will have a great three years. Much, much more thought needs to be put in at that stage about exactly why they are going and how much they will need to borrow to go and what they are planning to do with the qualification after the 3/4 years. They need to look at the size their debt will be and work out (using the many tables and websites available) - how quickly it will increase if they are not paying it off at a sufficiently rapid pace.

Student loans are the cheapest loans they will ever be able to access. However they become millstones around their necks if they don't pay them off quickly enough due to compounding. That is the same with any loan. The only difference is that the repayment on a student loan drops when income drops - that is good in one way but bad in another since the debt keeps compounding and compounding.

If students don't want such large debt there are other options. They can work for a few years before they go. They can do OU degrees and work alongside this. They can try to get apprenticeships.

The default can't keep being that the tax payer funds everyone else. Not at this level of uptake of degrees. Its a choice to go and that choice only pays off if you work hard to get good results at school, pick a sensible degree course that is likely to enhance your chances of getting a job, work really hard whilst at uni gaining relevant work experience and picking extra curriculars which give you work skills and then put massive amounts of effort into finding a job.

It's not easy. But the loan system where people pay back what they personally borrow is the only fair way to do it with these numbers of students.

Yuasa · 02/02/2026 07:39

There are few uni funding ideas I could loathe more than a graduate tax. The idea that the more you earn the more you pay for the same degree seems to penalise success. More than that, there isn’t a direct correlation between having a degree and your earnings. My undergraduate degree did not lead to high earnings at all. I had to study for professional qualifications not funded by tax and completely unrelated to my degree to break into a decent career. You could equally have someone who sets up a business unrelated to their studies.

gototogo · 02/02/2026 07:53

@EvangelicalAboutButteredToast. Of course graduates do owe society for their education, whether it’s repaid via general taxation because graduates earn more money, loan repayments based on income as now or a graduate tax in the future is political choice but yes graduates had more money spent on them

hairbearbunches · 02/02/2026 08:13

Labour are using the same bullshit the right wing use to justify the unjustifiable. Rachel Reeves argument is why should non graduates pay for those who have gone to university? Well, if they're going to take that tack, why should those without children pay for those who have to go to school, why should those who don't drive pay for the upkeep of our roads, why should those whose parents have died continue to contribute to social care for those still alive?

HE, as others have said, is fucked up beyond all repair. And I blame Blair for deciding that 50% going to university was a good idea. it was just so they could get arses on seats as they monetised the system. Students from poorer backgrounds have been absolutely shafted. And look who then came along to offer apprenticeships as a way of 'righting the wrongs'... one Euan Blair.

This lot, like Blair's lot before them, are about as Labour as George fucking Osborne. The Guardian did a good piece on student loans yesterday, linked for anyone interested.

The long-term cost of high student debt in the UK is not just for graduates | Heather Stewart

Labour’s changes to the student loan system have turned frustration into full-blown fury, which is likely to benefit its opponents at the ballot box

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/feb/01/long-term-cost-student-loan-debt-labour-uk-rachel-reeves

HighLadyofTheNightCourt · 02/02/2026 08:22

ElizabethsTailor · 01/02/2026 20:04

Uni courses are subsidised by the government, yes. Not sure what difference that makes to your argument though.

University courses are not subsidised by the government.

ElizabethsTailor · 02/02/2026 08:40

HighLadyofTheNightCourt · 02/02/2026 08:22

University courses are not subsidised by the government.

Yes they are.

https://ifs.org.uk/education-spending/higher-education/

“Under the current higher education funding system in England, the government pays around £22 billion to fund the education of each cohort of around 490,000 England-domiciled full-time undergraduate students studying anywhere in the UK.” … “In the long run, the government gets back part of this initial outlay as graduates make repayments on their student loans.”

GCAcademic · 02/02/2026 08:50

ElizabethsTailor · 02/02/2026 08:40

Yes they are.

https://ifs.org.uk/education-spending/higher-education/

“Under the current higher education funding system in England, the government pays around £22 billion to fund the education of each cohort of around 490,000 England-domiciled full-time undergraduate students studying anywhere in the UK.” … “In the long run, the government gets back part of this initial outlay as graduates make repayments on their student loans.”

The bulk of that funding is through loans, though. The grant that was paid directly to universities to fund teaching has been slashed, and reallocated to the student loan system.

"Direct grants for universities only amount to around £1,050 per student per year on average, with only some ‘high-cost’ subjects attracting a substantially higher level of direct government funding. This means that, for most courses, total resources per student amount to just over £10,500 per year."

HighLadyofTheNightCourt · 02/02/2026 08:55

ElizabethsTailor · 02/02/2026 08:40

Yes they are.

https://ifs.org.uk/education-spending/higher-education/

“Under the current higher education funding system in England, the government pays around £22 billion to fund the education of each cohort of around 490,000 England-domiciled full-time undergraduate students studying anywhere in the UK.” … “In the long run, the government gets back part of this initial outlay as graduates make repayments on their student loans.”

That’s not the government subsidising courses though. That’s just the cost of the student loans system.

Universities get the cost of tuition per individual student. And they have to run courses on that basis. Some specific courses get some additional funding but not all.
Unfortunately, the current UG fees mean universities are operating at a loss.

International students bring higher fees but as the government/parts of society seem to struggle with understanding the difference between immigration and international students we’ve fucked that up now.

Alexandra2001 · 02/02/2026 08:56

Serafee · 01/02/2026 20:26

They do owe society something - the money they borrowed plus interest.

We simply cannot pay for everything. The country can’t afford it.

Well, that might make sense if loans were paid back but after 4 years of earning an above average wage, my DD owes more, alot more, than when she left Uni, the interest rates are crippling... she also works in the NHS, something Labour are "supposed" to be about improving...

Most students will never repay the debt and the system also favours the wealthy, who can avoid all interest payments by paying of their childrens loan

If the Student loans were regulated by the FCA, they would never be allowed.

As graduates tend to earn more, they by default, pay more NI and more income tax.

I get this is something they inherited but that doesn't mean it cannot be improved upon.

On this stupid govt minister and on Reeves response yesterday as well, if Labour think they will grow the economy and get young people to vote for them by stating the loans system is "fair" then are going to be for a rather big surprise.

MsGreying · 02/02/2026 09:12

@Ohfuckrucksack
Id argue that student money damages towns.

House prices go up. Rents go up. More buildings taken over by uni squeeze out any chance of normality.
Dense areas of student housing attract their own issues and generally are not positive for full time residents.
Students going home for holidays must have different effects on shops and bars and can not be good.
When student numbers drop there will be real damage done.

ComeSnowoOrSnow · 02/02/2026 09:20

All those people who choose not to work and live off benefits owe the country more than mainly harder working students. We have to stop taxing those who contribute to society.

Many universities have a lot in assets and endowments, in the billions in some cases so they aren’t all poor.