Kids constantly swearing in primary school class

[Bluecandycanes]

User name changed for this!
My DS is in year6 so at primary school. Since reception there has always been certain (mostly boys) who are loud/disruptive etc, some with SEN some without, but no real
major issues.
A new boy joined mid way through yr5 and since then his behaviour has escalated so much so that now he basically constantly swears in the classroom and playground, he has climbed fences to escape, hit teachers hurting them, hit other kids, broken laptops and equipment, throws chairs and tables etc. he has pushed kids down stairs and throws stuff deliberately at them. He runs into other classrooms and constantly shouts things like ”you f@&!ing ars@holes”
my child tells me each day how it’s getting worse and worse and it seems the teachers now just try to ignore his swearing, what also seems to be happening now is certain other kids (who were just a bit naughty before) have now escalated their behaviours too and are now swearing and hitting etc. (I guess they think well if he gets away with it I will too)
one boy in DS class now just swears shouting it loud most of the time - but is not sent to the head!
Is this normal now in primary schools, we are in a town in the SE not in a deprived part of London. I feel that other kids shouldn’t have to hear constant swearing in the classroom, be subjected to verbal and physical abuse to themselves as well as witnessing it. This particular child is obviously not in the right environment for him and it’s not fair on him or the other kids.
What can I do, I have mentioned it to the teachers but they kind of shake it off

Sadly, this is not particularly unusual. I have loads of friends who work in school and my granddaughter is in year one. A regular occurrence is one or two children causing chaos and the remainder of the class having to leave the room and go to the library. This is for their safeguarding, I understand that, but for every time one of these challenging kids kicks off, it steals time from all the others.
Inclusion is the right idea, but not all children can be educated in mainstream because their behaviour is detrimental to others. I also understand that it is quite often not the fault of the children and that many of them have mental health issues or come from terrible home backgrounds.. Proper funding should be available for these children, but they should not be allowed to continue to disrupt other peoples education.

This is what my kids’ primary was like. There was a kid who called an Indian kid the ‘N’ word repeatedly and the class teacher told my kids they should be ‘used to it now’ and to ignore it. I hit the roof. School stood firm that was the correct response. Same kid smashed a window after physically assaulting my son and telling multiple other kids to f*k off/calling them c*ts. At no point did the school sanction the kid, simply because the school was appalling. They also didn’t even tell me the kid had assaulted my son. I had to call them when I found out about it when I got home. I complained to the head, and then the governors but it had v little impact. I’m also in the SE (genuinely wondering if it’s the same school!!) Both my kids are now at really lovely secondary schools and we all shudder when we mention primary.

I work in a school and sadly it is normal. It's not a bad area we have a couple that smash up classrooms, one thst constantly escapes and hits and kicks, he's autistic and struggles with any change. My child is a teen now but she had similar in her primary a kid that smashed up the classroom. My son had three kids in his class with issues. Lots of kids swear. It's very sad and normal in most schools. There are not enough sen places and kids who need places are often left in mainstream.

I agree. The teachers aren't 'shaking it off' because they're not bothered but they are limited in what they can say. I'm sure the class teacher wants something done about him as much as you do, she has to contend with him all day.

the mother of the young person I tutor was describing a very similar situation for the yp’s sibling in year 4. They have moved him schools now.

@Bluecandycanes Be careful about calling it safeguarding. Safeguarding is abuse. This isn’t abuse by an adult. It’s the failure of the school to follow up on its behaviour policy. It’s a health and safety issue and all schools have a duty of care towards their pupils. Technically it’s not safeguarding. You can of course contact the LADO, but what would you say? What evidence do you have of abuse?

In my view this is a school matter and you should start by asking to see the head. The buck stops there. You can say that your child is upset, unable to learn due to the behaviour permitted and is not thriving in the school. The school has a duty to keep DC safe from harm and to provide a learning environment. They will have a discipline and behaviour policy. Be certain to have read it. Make sure you know what the sanctions are and what they are not doing. Read the safeguarding policy too for information.

Dont be fobbed of by Sen excuses or the child is awaiting assessment. If the child cannot be educated due to their behaviour and it’s causing huge detriment to others, the head can exclude the child. They won’t discuss the child with you but read up on exclusion law and what a school must do to provide a safe and healthy school for your child. Gather evidence to prove your case. If the head does nothing, start a formal complaint and contact Ofsted.

This behaviour is not normal.

I anticipate the language is the least of their issues and the child probably has a very troubled and difficult home life. Perhaps schooo is sadly the safest place for him so exclusion is complex. I’m not saying it is ok or acceptable but due to lack of funding and lack of availability of appropriate resources, there may be no alternative provision so everyone is just having to manage as best they can.

I would raise a meeting with the Head to discuss safeguarding and concerns.

The resources are devolved to schools for Sen. This will be Sen but in a form the school isn't equipped to deal with. However a child obviously harming the learning opportunities for others can be excluded but the school must try management of the child first. The child might get a ECHP snd have a special school named. We cannot assume this behaviour is all down to a poor home life either. Leafy lane schools do see this occasionally.

Head of School in a primary in a very deprived area here.

Sadly, this is normal in a lot of schools. The volume of SEND is rapidly increasing in schools and we have very limited powers to stop disruption.

We are a school who do suspend and use permanent exclusions where necessary and this does mean that our children are calm for the most part. However, the number of suspensions caused a real issue in our recent ofsted inspection and stopped behaviour being classed as 'strong standard' in the new framework despite insectors saying behaviour they witnessed was good. I can therefore see why some schools are reluctant to put meaningful consequences in place.

My ds had a child like this in his class for the last few years of primary, he told me several times a week about the disruption it caused for everyone, constant swearing/lashing out/threatening language, on one occasion at least they had to call the police as this child was being physical and aggressive towards staff and trying to abscond, and all of the other behaviors you've described were a daily occurrence. I think it's so unfair that one child is allowed to behave like they do when it has such a negative affect on the rest of the pupils. The most ridiculous things was that this pupil was taken into the heads office all the time and coddled by the head, and she knew exactly how to behave to make this happen, it was like she was being rewarded for terrible behavior. I've heard since they left primary this year that this child was already expelled from their new school, obviously the new head didn't want to coddle her and she was punished instead, which is what should have happened in primary imo. I believe there is probably very little you can do other than look at moving your own dc which you obviously shouldn't have to. Lots of parents complained about the child in my ds class but nothing was ever done.

It won't be being ignored. The school will be doing the best they can with what is available to them. They probably don't have enough support staff or rooms to use anyway, there are probably issues whether these be SEN, mental health, related to trauma or background, that you won't know about and are not privy to. Staff can't and won't discuss other children with you. It's also very difficult to exclude a child or even have a managed move without them having an alternative school place - as it should be, all children are entitled to an education - and there are no places in SEN or alternative provision for children who desperately need them. I work in a relatively small school, in a semi rural area with huge parental engagement, and this is still a familiar tale to me. We have pupils with tourettes, so I would consider whether that's part of the situation, we have multiple pupils with ADHD, ASD, PDA, we have mental health issues, children with trauma. We are doing our very best, for all pupils, and of course we're aware of the effect of the behaviour of pupils on the rest of the class. This is a thankless job tbh. Our wages as support staff aren't enough to survive on, thousands have to claim UC on top, and yet we still show up every day and do the best we can with the resources provided and no budget. I honestly can't tell you the answer but I don't think what you're describing is unusual.

My first TA job was 20 years ago (primary village school) for 10 years. In the school back then we had ONE child who was almost uncontrollable. Meetings were held and everyone was given a specific place to go and stand to stop him bolting off the school grounds. Two members of staff were even given restraint training to deal with him. A plan of immediate evacuation of the class if he kicked off (throwing chairs) and the 'red button' pushed meant all hands on deck.

We were bewildered and shocked and saddened - none of us had come across anything like it.

Recently i returned to the job. Same school. Now the school is like Fort Knox with the whole grounds fenced in with automated doors top and bottom and every external door of the building operated only with key cards. At my return i have been shocked (horrified actually) by the fact that now there is a child like the above in almost every year group and a level almost as bad definitely in every class.

I feel for the kids having to sit through it and see it every day. I feel for the disruptive kids as their lives must feel chaotic. I feel for the teachers who have the patience of saints.

I don't know what the answer is but i wonder what the future holds if the rate of behaviour issues continues to rise like this.

@Laiste I think it’s more special schools or units within schools so gradual integration can be controlled when dc are ready. If they aren’t able to improve, we have to recognise it’s a sen best dealt with off site in a special unit or school.

We used to have special units where dc attended part time to teach them how to play and interact with peers and they attended their primary school part time. Funded by our LA when I was working for them 35 years ago. Such units are very much needed now. We also funded peripatetic specialist teachers to advise schools on these dc and other sen dc plus we had outreach from our special schools. All this is taken away from LA funding and the money is devolved to schools but it seems to prevent area units and collaboration. We need a rethink.

I always feel sorry for primary schools and the children in this situation (including the swearer) as it seems to be so much more difficult to deal with and get/afford suitable support or alternative provision.

I’m a secondary school teacher at an inner city comp and have never been sworn at in 20+ years - our school deals very robustly with disruptive behaviour.

Comes under the heading peer on peer surely?

I feel so sorry for teachers and other pupils, shame there are no consequences for these children

This was the main reason I left my last school after 12 years of teaching.

Consider moving schools.

@Needlenardlenoo these are the list of misdemeanours in a safeguarding policy in terms of peer on peer. It’s stretching it to say this is safeguarding as the policies intend safeguarding to mean. This is about the school providing a safe place to learn which is different and of course this is being marred for all dc in the class, not just this dc. Would all parents contact the LADO or the head and say this behaviour meets safeguarding policy definitions? I accept they are not a definitive list but other legislation is there to keep dc safe in a calm learning environment. This is what should be used, not a policy really looking at keeping dc safe from inappropriate sexual activity and covers recruitment and disclosure for example. Everyone knows this dc is causing problems for the whole class and the school needs an effective plan.

I have read KCSIE thank you.

I wouldn’t say that is normal although we’ve certainly experienced and still experience swearing periodically. I think the government are trying to bring in Hubs that will filter this kind of disruption without meaning the children are excluded from school.

In your position I would be enquiring what the policies are in your child’s school with regard to disruptive behaviour. It is possible to write a communication making your point crystal clear without naming specific children. You have the right to campaign for a safe space for your child alongside the disruptive child’s right to an education.

@EvangelicalAboutButteredToast The behaviour, discipline and sanctions policy should be on the web site of the school. Do read thoroughly.

I live in a deprived area in the north west, and this behaviour is sadly not uncommon at all.Though in most cases round here its not because of sen or trauma, but because their parents are exactly the same (many are just chavvy thugs, but some of the worst are drug dealing/organised crime gangster families. even the teachers are scared of some of them)

I had to pull my youngest daughter out of school as she was on the brink of expulsion because she made friends with some very nasty boys. The education system is going to the dogs if around the country these kids are allowed to stay in school and drive the good kids out