Kids constantly swearing in primary school class

[Bluecandycanes]

User name changed for this!
My DS is in year6 so at primary school. Since reception there has always been certain (mostly boys) who are loud/disruptive etc, some with SEN some without, but no real
major issues.
A new boy joined mid way through yr5 and since then his behaviour has escalated so much so that now he basically constantly swears in the classroom and playground, he has climbed fences to escape, hit teachers hurting them, hit other kids, broken laptops and equipment, throws chairs and tables etc. he has pushed kids down stairs and throws stuff deliberately at them. He runs into other classrooms and constantly shouts things like ”you f@&!ing ars@holes”
my child tells me each day how it’s getting worse and worse and it seems the teachers now just try to ignore his swearing, what also seems to be happening now is certain other kids (who were just a bit naughty before) have now escalated their behaviours too and are now swearing and hitting etc. (I guess they think well if he gets away with it I will too)
one boy in DS class now just swears shouting it loud most of the time - but is not sent to the head!
Is this normal now in primary schools, we are in a town in the SE not in a deprived part of London. I feel that other kids shouldn’t have to hear constant swearing in the classroom, be subjected to verbal and physical abuse to themselves as well as witnessing it. This particular child is obviously not in the right environment for him and it’s not fair on him or the other kids.
What can I do, I have mentioned it to the teachers but they kind of shake it off

The only thing you can ask is that your child is safeguarded.

Had very similar in year 4 when a child was taken into care and acted out in every class, his cousin was also in the class (one form entry) it was awful for everyone, my son learned very little that year and we moved school.

Teachers will not talk about other children. They have no choice in who is in their classroom and will try to deal with such extreme behaviour as vest they can. Minimising swearing can be effective in de-escalation of behaviour but drawing attention to it can make bad behaviour worse. Head teachers don't have a magic wand either. Presumably they will be recording all such behaviour in the hope that the child can be supported in a suitable setting. I have had to teach a number of seriously disturbed children at secondary school and the amount of evidence you need is huge, before authorities removed them. Just keep asking about how they can safeguard your child.

Unfortunately this is state education in England now. My friends live in a pricey leafy suburb and their four year old has been subjected to hearing their teacher called a cunt every day since she started reception by a boy in her class. Schools have their hands tied as it is seemingly impossible to expel children. At a great personal sacrifice we are going private which is ridiculous

Definitely not normal, no. We’re in a mixed part of S London and DS barely knows what swearwords are, there is definitely nobody shouting them out in class. I know one kid recently got told off for saying “oh my god” so definitely nothing stronger!

I could have written this post, also have a DS in year 6 and there are disruptive kids identical to what you mention. I wonder if it is the same school but sadly I’m guessing it isn’t and this behaviour is just commonplace. We don’t live in a deprived area, some of the kids have very privileged mc backgrounds.

Same here. I’ve reached my limit with our primary and we are taking DD out (y5) to home educate until private in Y7

The safeguarding question is a good one thanks. It’s quite sad really how this was a nice/good primary school but I feel very let down now. I’ve had conversations with DS for a while now about swearing and the context of it, why people do it etc and what certain words mean but I still feel he shouldn’t have to listen to it constantly within the school. He said the other day one child was saying the f word most of the day, shouting it out during lessons. Makes me wonder which high school these children will be going to come September and how they deal with it there?

DS2 was in year 5 of his private prep school and a new child joined the class. After a term it came to light the child was offering sexual favours to other kids in the class and simulating sex in the playground. I was totally shocked. DS was 9. Nothing was really done about it and the school tried to sweep it under the carpet.
I requested DS not be asked to work with this child as it has led to conflict between them which had led to my child being given a detention which all seemed very odd.
Long story short.. I had to go to the head of safeguarding in the end and state categorically that my child was not to be asked to share / work with this child. I also had to tell various teachers as this was not enforced.
I totally empathise with the child who had themselves been abused and taken into care but the school also has a duty of care to all the other children in the class too.

My ds is in yr 6 in a school in an area of high deprivation in East London and I wouldn't consider this normal. His class has a high level of children with SEN and there are behavioural issues. However regular swearing and violence in class is not something that occurs and I wouldn't expect it to. In my older son's secondary school it would come down like a tonne of bricks on anyone swearing in class, as would any of our local secondaries.

That sounds quite extreme. A difficult class can egg each other on a bit re behaviour. I withdrew one child in similar (but not as bad) circumstances.

I think you have to be realistic that it is a dealt shit environment to be in for the kids. I wouldn’t tolerate it in a work place but we’re expecting to put up with behaviour from their peers that adults wouldn’t tolerate.

I would take my child out of the school. I know it’s year 6 and you might question if it’s worth it, but would you want to be subjected to this day in day out?

Thanks all for your replies, I wasn’t sure if I was being overprotective and haven’t really spoken to other parents as I don’t want to seem like I’m starting a campaign!!

I will be asking re Safeguarding and the duty of care they have to all other children there.

Very true it would not be tolerated in the work place at all!

What bothers me is that primary schools seem completely powerless to do anything about this. The second this kid hits secondary, he'll be subject to e.g. internal exclusions so he's not allowed to disrupt the education of his peers - secondaries take no shit with this kind of thing. Why is it acceptable in the arguably more important primary years?

Just take him out now!
home educate or online school or a few hours of tutoring a week .

We’ve had similar. The school did the right thing and followed procedures. Eventually got him moved. I always wonder where these kids will end up in life. They clearly can’t cope.

If he is back in January I’ll have to speak to the school. I was told he was running up and down the corridor all day swearing loudly and hitting the doors then pushed another child down a flight of about 6 steps!
Another child in DS class was shouting ‘f@£k’ most of the day too

They are not powerless, some Heads are ineffective. Other schools put resources into behaviour management. Eg, a cool-down area, a nurture group. A member of staff available to take children out of the room if behaviour is not reasonable etc. It can be done.

I work in secondary and it’s rare that I hear kids swear in the classroom. If they ever swear directly at me I have them removed. It’s definitely not the norm. Although behaviour is becoming increasingly challenging.

The problems primary schools often have is that they don't have sufficient staff or sufficient rooms to do internal exclusion, so really the only thing they have is to suspend the child or put them on a reduced timetable. Then , they get told that they're not allowed to use a reduced timetable for any length of time and that the child has to be included etc. The process to have a child moved is lengthy if current school are saying they cannot meet need.

With regard to your child (don't bother asking about duty of care to other children as that's not your concern) you request a written explanation as to what the school are doing to safeguard your child and follow the schools published complaints procedure if they are unable to provide a satisfactory written answer. Focus on the impact on your child's learning etc.
It may assist them as it's evidence for what they are trying to achieve.

Sometimes ineffective, but sometimes literally nothing they can do with lack of budget and lack of space. We had a child who desperately needed a calm down area last year, but there was literally no space that could be used. We ended up using the lobby to the cloakroom area which was no good as other children were in and out and we had no staff to supervise anyway. 1 TA for the entire 2 form Junior school. Schools need funding.

Welcome to inclusion.

In the secondary I worked in (in Scotland) the bar to suspend laac children, ie children in care, was frighteningly high. Their behaviour could be outrageous but we still had to have them in class. Also children who were vulnerable because of family circumstances were often in class when they should have been excluded. When I started teaching, the biggest issue was illiteracy and boys who didn't want to be at school. By the time I retired, the issue was children with mental health issues, who didn't want to learn but hung about school in corridors, bursting into classes to cause disruption and being chased by SMT.

I very much doubt the teachers’ brush it off. You can’t help who your child is in class with and school will be doing their best to meet his needs whilst protecting the needs of the others.

This just wouldn’t be tolerated at my primary school. Does the child have any SEND? Tourette’s?