Easter GCSE/A-Level Revision Courses - cancelled due to VAT

[TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams]

School have just cancelled them as they are apparently economically unviable after the introduction of VAT [which also applies to organised courses like this not 1:1 tuition.]
Are others seeing the same trend?

Private or State?
Charged to parents normally?

Yes fully chargeable, widely advertised open to all comers revision courses. It doesn't actually matter whether a state or private school is running it, I checked out the vat regs and vat will apply either way.

I just wondered as when my DD1 did gcses her state school ran Easter sessions for free.

My kids also had free sessions at February, Easter and May half terms.
Will your school not be doing any kind of revision sessions at Easter?

Our school only offered the odd after school revision session. All free of charge (state, non selective).

Who was it that ran these courses and where?

Yeh I used to run a couple of Easter sessions for my GCSE students (state school) - they were free to the kids tho. I was paid btw.

Were these week-long or individual days? And run by school staff or external provider?

Are these sessions that parents were paying for or the school were paying for?

and is your child at private or state school.

It would helpful for you to explain the situation a bit better.

VAT can’t be added to free things so I am most confused what you mean about state/private

That’s a shame. My dd attended one a couple of years ago and i’ve just looked to see if they’re running any more, and that school isn’t either.

I've never heard of a state school charging for out of hours revision sessions.

Presumably if you're paying premium prices during term time, that should include advice on how to revise and what to do during school holidays. Slightly concerning that the school thinks it's own teaching isn't enough without having to charge extra for top up sessions.

Do you mean this is a third party company that uses both private school and state school sites to run its paid revision courses @TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams ?

If it’s in Easter and open to all, it will be chargeable regardless. Therefore subject to vat.

20% of £0 is £0.00.

School governing bodies and local authorities, cannot charge for: <snip>

education provided outside school hours if it is part of the national curriculum, or part of a syllabus for a prescribed public examination that the pupil is being prepared for at the school, or part of religious education

Charges may be made for some activities that are known as ‘optional extras’. Where an optional extra is being provided, a charge can be made for providing materials, books, instruments, or equipment.

Optional extras are:

• education provided outside of school time that is not:
a) part of the national curriculum;
b) part of a syllabus for a prescribed public examination that the pupil is being prepared for at the school; or
c) part of religious education.

Eh? At one school they were totally free; at the other they asked for a contribution (in the same way as they do for trips).

Were these expensive? I guess if it's effectively extra private tuition, then fair enough - it's paid-for education. Why wouldn't it be taxed?

I didn't go to school in the UK and this is our first rodeo with GCSEs so it didn't occur to me that some state schools run them free of charge for students. How lovely. You definitely had to pay for them where I grew up and they were run by independent companies who hired in teachers for the holidays. Really common to attend as a cramming session right before exams in May.

So I was a bit taken aback when I saw they'd been cancelled due to the introduction of VAT because my presumption [erroneously] was that the changes to VAT would therefore impact very large numbers of students outside of the private education too. Law of unintended consequences and all that, and making such courses available to an even smaller number of wealthy families.

It's not to debate whether vat should be applied on education as a principle. In practice it now is.

So I wondered if this is what's happening everywhere. Which it's not if state schools run them for free. Question answered and I can add another benefit of state schooling to the list 😉

My son’s (private) school runs all revision courses at no additional cost - they are included in the school fees. Obviously not all schools are the same though.

Citing VAT as the reason to cancel revision courses at a private school seems rather odd to me.

I mean as a PP said upthread, if (say) a week of GCSE revision classes is run by a private provider at a school, whether state or private, and is obviously charging (the provider being in the business of making a profit after all) then I guess VAT will be applied.

But IME such courses, while they are certainly offered, are clearly a private extra (same was as if a student had 1-1 tuition for GCSEs) and not in any way linked to a school. So they are being cancelled – presumably because of lack of demand at the price? Or are you saying the classes are run by and promoted by the school?

GCSE revision support provided by schools is usually free, yes. I presume it is also offered in private schools?

I also used to offer a GCSE session after school on a certain night – chance for students to ask me any specific questions, go through some techniques or revision, or simply do a practice paper and mark it. Obviously free. More than happy to run them tbh, as I think any teacher would be. I wasn’t paid for these btw, unlike the Easter sessions, as they involved me coming in to school in my holiday period.

Either way this makes no sense. If they charged £150 for sessions last year, they just need to make the price £180 this year. Whether they are economically unviable or not will be determined by the uptake. Parents who can afford private fees may well feel that an extra £30 is within their means. Some are barely affording the fees and wouldn't have been doing the course anyway, and some will just about afford it without VAT and the VAT will make it impossible. The only way they'll find out is to offer it at the new price.

Completely agree. The purpose of the thread was whether or not other folk were seeing such courses just cancelled before even testing the market.

[rather than debating whether vat should be added or not]

Most of us never paid for revision courses so I think your results might be skewed!

there will be private providers that run revision courses but I’d be very surprised if any revision sessions organised by actual schools would be affected by VAT

They can’t be cancelled “before testing the market” and blame VAT for the reason they did. As PP said, this makes no sense. They’re either lying, or you’ve made this up.

I suspect I am overinvested here but I am still keen to discover what kind of courses @TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams is talking about.

I can only think of three possibilities:

• Easter revision courses run by a state school, at the school, chargeable through ParentPay I guess? Tricky to do that tho if not a parent (OP says open to all). Also beyond unlikely that a state school would charge for this (all the ones I know offer exam revision for free – after school, lunchtimes, holidays).
• Ditto but at a private school. I guess the mechanic of parents paying is already set up there but surely having paid for the school, parents would not be keen?
• A course run by a totally private company – but using the school premises (I mean I have been on courses where a school was used just as a classroom) – not anything to do with the school, charging parents the market rate. But then why not as @Lougle says just up the price to account for VAT? And the OP says that the school has cancelled the revision courses, so that doesn't fit either.

Is there a fourth option I've not thought of OP? Or what are you actually talking about?

It's irrelevant really which option it is. I simply asked if people were seeing if Easter revision courses which have historically been run were being preemptively cancelled widely.

I assumed they would not be free of charge because I've never seen that where I grew up. On the basis that they appear to be provided free of charge by many schools that doesn't appear to be the case so I have my answer.

It is however the case, that the course provider I have seen advertised for years locally has decided not to do so this year. I can only speculate as to why, the reason given was it would be uneconomic due to the vat changes.

Ah OK – I guess it must be a private provider (so not a school?) just finding it is not economic to run them – there is not the take up bc of the high costs. It’s a pretty unusual thing where I am for fee payign revision courses to be run at all apart from by individual tutors, but maybe it’s common in some parts of the country (tho also not where any PPs are). Fair enough.