Talk to me about grammar schools

[pancakesallday]

Hi. I grew up abroad and don’t understand the system. I’m a single parent and don’t have family I can ask, I’m very grateful for your help.

DS is in year 5. He’s on the spectrum but still unsure what’s going on. He’s quirky and bright.

Our local secondary is amazing. He’ll get a space there almost without a doubt.

The local grammar is also great. How do I know if he’s suitable? Do I talk to his teacher? He has younger siblings and as a single parent I need to think about money and logistics.

How much money would I need to invest to tutor him to sit the 11+ exams?

Any pointers welcome. Thank you.

In my experience state primary schools know nothing about the 11+ and can't give you any information. Depending on your area, you need to find out who runs the 11+ yourself, e.g. in Essex it's a group called CSSE. Your local grammar school website should have that information. Make sure you know the key dates, such as when you need to register them for the exam by and when the exam is sat.

As for tutoring, you could save money by doing group sessions. My eldest refused a tutor and I worked through the CGP 11+ books with her, then she did a few online creative writing group sessions and passed. My youngest had more tutoring, about six months; we paid £35 per hour one-to-one.

Well you don’t have to tutor at all, plenty of children get into grammar without it .

Are you in a fully Grammar area like Kent or Bucks where eg 20-30% go to grammar, or are you in an area with mainly comps and a few grammars where only say 5% go? That impacts a lot on tutoring.

You need to consider the tutoring, but also which school will suit him best.

Will he have academic peers at the comp, or will they have been top sliced off to the grammar? So for example does the comp offer single science GCSEs? Can they produce kids with 8s and 9s if that is where you hope your DS to be.

Who will cope with his ASD best?

What will the level of pressure / homework be like at each school, will he cope?

Is travel longer for one compared with the other?

I went to a grammar. They would suit some autistic children very well - more old fashioned learning styles, quite strict routine, less modern and chaotic, high academic standards so lot of stimulation there

It depends on what area you are in. For example, some grammar schools are catchment based (e.g. Birmingham) and they have a minimum score and a priority score. All children who reach the priority score are pretty sure to get a place.

It is absolutely not necessary to spend load of money on tutoring, in fact there is no need to have a tutor. Look at the website for your local grammar- they will have example questions. See how your son does with these. My main recommendation would be for your son to read a lot. This will help his vocabulary etc. The non verbal reasoning questions are the ones that most children will not have seen before. It’s a good idea to get him used to the format of these. The other thing is how to answer a multiple choice question paper. That’s also new for some children.

Most importantly, remember that a grammar school is just another school. The results are outstanding because they are selective. A bright child with support at home will do well wherever. I think it would be better to be in the top sets at a comprehensive school rather than feeling like they can’t keep up/ are at the bottom.

Neither of mine were tutored, one got in and one didn't, each ended up in the right school for them and they have both thrived in the different environments. I did however buy past papers and workbooks which I made available and encouraged them to work through, I would then mark the papers with them and talk through what they had got wrong, which often involved looking it up online especially for the maths, I was more at home with the reading comprehension/ creative writing.

So when I say they were not tutored, they were, by me, kind of - but I suppose the difference was it was entirely at their own pace. I would suggest they did some work but if they didn't want to, they didn't do it. The one that got in wanted to, the other one didn't (didn't want to do the work, he did want to go to the grammar), and I think its a sign that grammar school is right for you if you actually enjoy studying and doing tests and workbooks.

In my experience, with just one grammar and one comprehensive, the grammar school is a space where children are free to be a bit quirkier. It should have an open day, can you go to that?

I also went to a grammar , but I’m 45 so a long time ago . Speaking to the teacher is definitely your best bet at the moment . My teacher advised grammar as I was the sort of child who only did the bare minimum and I was ‘pushed’ more at grammar so probably came way with much better grades. It suited my personality !
But obviously things have changed in 35 years 😳

Depends where you are, in London some form of tuition is needed by the majority as the competition is so high.

If you can tell us roughly where you are it would be helpful.

Yeah not our experience at all. Local state school as good as grammar. High expectations and not chaotic at all. Depends on the school not the type.

Really? Can you disclose the names of the schools please? That’s very unusual.

Thanks all. We’re in East Devon. Local secondary is King’s School. Grammar is Colyton.

Too outing so no. We are on the border of a grammar area so comps in our county. Many kids go to both from our primary. 3% difference in a level results.in fact the all girls achool in our town performs better. And yes I know this isn’t usual.

I'm not familiar with the area at all, but some googling suggests 300-400 children apply for 160 places, which is a much better chance of getting in than the grammars in West Kent (for example). The tests would be in September of year 6 (there seem to be two stages).

if your child is Pupil Premium (receives free school meals) they are second priority for admission IF they get the pass mark.

The school website has past papers and offer of a free Atom Learning subscription for Pupil Premium children.

Visit both schools - see what you think.

Thank you all! Great advice.

Thank you, I was reading all this on their website. It sounds promising.

We prepped without a tutor. We got the CGP books off Amazon and sourced test papers from the relevant test board. For us it was a case of familiarisation and picking up speed with the questions.

We also covered together some of the maths that isn’t taught before the test, so a bit of algebra etc

There are lots of good resources online. Some tutors offer mock tests too that you can book even if not tutored. Which can help you spot gaps and help your child get used to the test conditions. We did one at the start of the summer before the test and it helped us know where we were.

Following with interest as I could have written your post - I wish I could PM you?

I know both schools and have family in the area.

Both schools will also be good options, so I wouldn't throw the kitchen sink at tutoring. Do enough that they are familiar with the types of questions and the need to perform under timed conditions and then see what happens.

You're not in a situation where you have poor options if they don't get into the grammar.

King's are also pretty good with ASD.

You’re welcome to!

Hi, we've recently sat the Colyton test. There's approx 475 (give or take a few) kids sit the test each year.

There's two mixed papers and one creative writing piece.

Tutoring, depends on the kid. For us, we did tutor as we felt our child responded to an external person rather than us (home school in COVID was traumatic for all involved so we didn't want to repeat that!)

You need an eligible mark in both papers and then a joined up eligible score. What this score is depends on the test scores each year. The year we did it there were over 200 that could have been offered places after all the papers were marked but only 160 places.

I've heard good things about Kings so you've got a good back. Our local was a dire option!

We are in a grammar area a small la. Dd1 is at the grammar she is nerdy and quirky and she has thrived more than I could imagine there. She’s year 11 now. She scored very highly on the 11 + and I paid for a tutor. Conversely dd2 does really well at the comp as she didn’t want no boys!

Have 3 dc, eldest we didn't feel colyton was right for them and thry had previously had massive anxiety in ks2 sats so didn't pushr. Loved the look of king but too far from catchment. Since being at secondary school has been diagnosed much like your dc.

Dc2 we asked if wanted to try for colyton and were prepared to try some tutors but didn't seem interested until June if Yr 5. Got in and whilst at times it feels more pushed than dc1s school they are doing well so far.

Same boat as you for dc3, but live just a few 100m outside kings catchment. Not yet sure if will sit 11plus and colyton, or try kings but also away could end up elsewhere altogether.