10 year old DD

[CoffeeAndIce]

DD has just started year 6. In yr 5, she started complaining of stomach aches almost every week day. She would get sent to the office and they would call me and want me to bring paracetamol there, in the end I had to say no as I didn't want her taking medication every day. We saw a doctor and a nurse on 2 separate occasions who both said likely school based anxiety as it only happens there. School have given her ELSA sessions and had an emotional support teacher from an outside source do sessions with her, which seemed to help a bit but DD is a people pleaser and will say what she thinks people want to hear.

Anyway, we are now in yr 6 and the stomach aches have started again. We think there is something else going on. She ticks every box on the NHS website for inattentive ADHD, but school say they don't see any issues so we are stuck. I'm hoping if I list some things we've noticed that maybe someone can tell me if I'm going mad, is this all normal or should I push harder? I don't know what to do or how to help her.

• easily distracted. Has previously said herself, she thinks she has "a problem" as she gets distracted in her head so much
• Talks non stop, asks a question doesn't listen to answer so asks it again. Says anything that pops in her head it seems. Interrupts often
• fidgets constantly. Rocks/bounces often. Picks at her skin and leaves scars
• sensory issues around loud noises like hand dryers, fit of clothes/shoes etc. had huge tantrum last week around leggings (which have previously been fine)
• Loses things constantly
• messy eater, takes apart food like burgers/wraps
• either watches the same shows/reads the same books on repeat or changes show every 5 mins
• zones out. She did this a lot as a younger child
• is distant with family members. Only really wants to be around parents/siblings. Couldn't care less about most other people and seems to not have much empathy for how they might feel
• "behind" in maths and writing. Teacher says due to missing details like punctuation/full stops.

These are not all the things/not all the details but the main ones.

She absolutely will not get in trouble at school. She knows the rules ie sitting still, not talking, etc so she follows the rules and they don't notice a problem. However last sports day she was stood in the crowd of children cheering, covering her ears in pain so I'm not convinced they notice her because she doesn't cause a fuss.

Just wondering if anyone with more experience then me had any advice!

Following, also DD10 with many of your daughter's symptoms. Although hers comes in waves and mostly is sociable and has many friends. I don't doubt my daughter has ADHD, but it is very mild and I'm not sure diagnosis would provide benefits for us. We may seek privately, but I think school will not back-up (she's a perfect teacher's pet at school, and bright).
For anxiety, this book was an actual lifesaver. The child reads it, and it had such a profound effect that I wanted to write to the author to thank them!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1591473144/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?ie=UTF8&dib_tag=se&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.8HtpBU5d7ymGKpBv5Wqassi-ew_ssQPxSTrur98WDEndZ3xC_1V3fDz2H8C0TPGnWMgQ2oi1cp_n8NuHsyaEnJJiscTGawcs7LM45Kps2z44dctXw0xuoprvHhZe-BhOadNjozAiufwSZNd5YIOO8Ezd7GY6NReBxb2O2syH-vtYYBBvjXvU5h_rf-OlGQO0j29c4JmIaCEokGZO08BX9Q.caPPhx-An50EzCz6_cpOqPvh1InrK0Hk28W11RATuWg&qid=1757930428&sr=8-1

What book? I can't see it. .
My 8 year old is exactly the same. I am going to push for a diagnosis for her I think. Controversial it might be but the struggle is real.

Oh sorry posted at the same time as you!!
Thank you. Hoping it might help her with her anxiety and feeling of other and never getting it right.

@Hotdoughnut Our daughters do sound similar! Definitely on the teachers pet, but I think mine is often overlooked due to good behaviour and not causing a fuss. She does have friends, but none particularly close.

I don't know how a diagnosis will help either, but I'm so worried about her moving on to secondary school and not getting any support without a diagnosis. Will definitely have a look at the book, thanks.

@Rattyandtoad it does feel controversial doesn't it, I think I'm worried about the school thinking I'm just jumping on a bandwagon, for want of a better description. But I don't see how they can keep telling me she's fine, when she is having stomach aches about school every day.

OP, my child has q a few similar traits and I raised inattentive adhd with the school. The senco then suggested ASD instead (autism); I was surprised and initially sceptical but she is currently on a waitlist for assessment. Whereas she has been bounced back from the adhd waitlist three times for not having enough traits. So worth looking into asd perhaps? In any case if the asd assessment turns up adhd traits they can refer you onwards.

Thanks, @wtftodo, it's interesting as a family member has also mentioned the possibility of ASD too. I think (unfairly) it feels harder to get my head around that, then ADHD. And it's so hard when school don't see it, you start to wonder if you're making it up

From your description I’d have said ASD too though obviously you can’t tell from a brief description.
Can present very differently in girls and they can mask especially in school which causes huge anxiety.

A diagnosis might help but you can read around the subject anyway to see what is recommended and try some strategies to see what helps. In ear noise reducers might help. Keep looking at ways to build confidence. Also keep a food diary. We discovered a food intolerance and a lot of the anxiety at school was around dealing with the day while not feeling physically well. We thought anxiety caused tummy aches but sometimes it was the other way round. At senior school now and no longer problems with anxiety - looking back, we think there was a big hormonal shift contributing to earlier problems on top of food issues and some element of actual anxiety.

Sounds very like ASD/ADHD combined. Many of the "symptoms" you have listed sound so like my son who eventually got diagnosed with both. (Though he didn't have sensory/food issues and he was very hyperactive so did get into trouble often.) The masking by rule following (and absence of hyperactivity) is really typical of girl presentation. He was also our first child and our idea of what autism looked like - we knew a boy locally who was totally non verbal and in nappies until he was 8 - was very limited.

We too got fobbed off by primary school. Apparently this can be because they don't have the budget or resources to support SEN so anything that can be nudged under the radar will be. If a child is well behaved (or behaves well enough) then there is no benefit to the school in supporting you to pursue a diagnosis.

I would urge you to look into it further. The sooner she can be properly supported the more she will flourish. My son was diagnosed at secondary school and it was just in time to turn his education around. He's now age 20 and at uni, has a girlfriend, drives, has just completed a summer internship abroad etc. He keeps his ASD diagnosis mainly to himself as he feels there is a stigma/assumptions about ASD and he's high functioning enough for it to mainly go under the radar. But he's very open about his ADHD, which is now medicated. He still gets verbal diarrhoea, especially about his favourite subjects but will say to people "If I'm banging on just tell me to shut up".

Sorry I didn't mean to waffle on so much about my own kids but if there's one piece of advice I could give to my younger self it would be don't let school fob you off, you know your child best. And don't fear a diagnosis, neurodiverse people can have full and happy lives, and the right support will maximise that opportunity.

What a lovely, helpful post, thank you.

I also think it sounds like ADHD and autism combined. She sounds very much like my DD2 who was diagnosed while at university.

I would strongly urge you to seek out diagnosis. It is far better for overall health and wellbeing to be diagnosed, especially in the case of ADHD. There is medication for ADHD, it has been around for decades and is very effective.

The diagnosis reports are incredibly helpful because they explain how ADHD or autism is impacting the person's life. It is virtually impossible as a parent to realize everything that is going on - in the case of my DD2, there were all sorts of behaviours that I didn't realise were related to neurodivergence so it has enabled me to support her better.

In the long run, having undiagnosed neurodivergence is very stressful and is therefore more likely to lead to poor health, drug and alcohol addiction and imprisonment.

I also have ADHD and autism. I was in my 50s when they were diagnosed. My ADHD psychiatrist has said that the stress of living with undiagnosed autism and ADHD would
Have probably been a contributing factor to my development of a chronic illness, which has made me too unwell to work.

Please don't worry about the school thinking you're jumping on a bandwagon. An ADHD or autism diagnosis is very significant medical matter. My DD2's school did not think she had either but by the time she was at unversity it was obvious. It's a great shame she didn't get tha help she needed sooner but at least she has it now.

I could’ve written the first two paragraphs of this. My DD has also just started Y6, has stomach aches and also tells people what she thinks they want to hear - which is a pain in the arse, because whenever I inform school of something she is either struggling with or has told me she really doesn’t want to do, they’ll ask her and she’ll just say she’s fine! Or does want to do/go/have etc. So I end up looking stupid or paranoid.

Anyway, the one difference we have is that she is diagnosed Autistic. Quite high functioning but it’s there and she struggles to concentrate and often to understand things, especially anything nuanced.

She had a wonderful headteacher until the end of year 5, who had an autistic child herself. She got DD and DD adored her, but she’s retired now. This really hasn’t helped as the new head is a bit cold.
As for the stomach aches, I too think it’s anxiety. I’ve reduced DD’s screen time and seen a vast improvement.

Thank you all so much for the lovely replies. You've all honestly made me feel so heard, which I'm so grateful for.

DD is actually off school today as she was complaining of a stomach ache and feeling sick this morning (she's fine) so I'm using the opportunity to give her some 1 on 1 time (she's also the middle child, only girl) so I'll reply properly later

Your daughter doesn’t need a diagnosis to have support in school. Support should be based on need and you have the evidence to show she has some needs.

There are some adjustments that are quite easy to arrange, like ear defenders of some type, perhaps leaving a lesson a couple of minutes early to avoid crowds, a respite place to go perhaps, if she needs it, fidget toys maybe.

I guess you’ll be looking at secondary schools now and the open evenings will be taking place. I’d ask to speak to the SENDCos of the schools you visit and you’ll hopefully get a sense of how supportive they are and what support they can offer.

It could be both ADHD and Autism op, we initially thought it was ADHD with dd when she was younger, but more traits of Autism were clear as she got to about 9. Have a read of the following and see if it fits with your dd?

https://autisticgirlsnetwork.org/audhd/

P.s I recommend getting support in place for school based anxiety way before she starts secondary school, and make sure it’s all in place for when she does start secondary as it’s a massive change and was when my dd really struggled the most. You can still get support without a diagnosis so don’t let school fob you off with that

Anxie and ADHD have many traits in common, if you are worried get her tested.

I would go back to school and insist they refer her to Developmental Paediatrics or possibly CAHMS. Your GP can also refer her. I find it so bizarre that schools don’t listen to parents - girls will often mask in school. From my own experience you have to be pretty insistent.

Thanks for all your messages, sorry I didn't come back sooner.

It's difficult to reply to everyone individually because Mumsnet is showing huge adverts when I scroll up, but they've all been really helpful.

She currently does have ear defenders if she feels she needs them at school, some lessons she does if it's particularly noisy, although this was a battle last year as she wouldn't wear them until her teacher told her she could and I felt the teacher was very dismissive of any issues I raised, saying things like "oh we all get distracted sometimes" when I mentioned DD said she was easily distracted and had to work hard to make herself focus again.

Other then that there's nothing else in place, but right now I'm not sure what DD would need in place. I am hugely concerned about her starting secondary school next year. I'm worried the stomach aches will escalate and she will start school refusing particularly, so ideally I'd like something in place to at least say we are investigating concerns. I'll definitely be talking to the SENCO's at any schools we visit.

Her school has a coffee morning next week with the senco, mental health lead and an outside emotional support team so I'll be going along to that. They also sent an email out today with some online workshops around ADHD/autism/anxiety which I plan on signing up to.

We don't have much family support around learning differences or similar (complicated families!) , so I'm so glad I posted here as it's given me the confidence to push for help for her.

Hi again OP. I think we were lucky in that our SENCO is very very experienced and understands how both conditions present in girls. He observed her in class and noticed masking / stimming that had been missed by teachers, for eg twirling hair, biting nails, picking skin. Teachers thought she was "just" quiet and reserved and hard working (nothing like the reality on any front!).

For ADHD, symptoms need to be present in two settings and while masking is a symptom of ASD it is not considered (officially) a symptom of ADHD. Any traits my DD does display (fidgeting, losing focus etc) could be explained by other things - anxiety, ASD masking/executive function overload - and so they just won't accept her on the list till they have a clearer picture re ASD.

I would absolutely speak to SENCO. In general they should be more aware and open to exploring stuff. Ours arranged for drawing and talking therapy in school which really helped, plus fidget toys etc, a trusted adult DD could check in with for a few minutes each day, seating arranged so she was never at the back / around v distracting kids, etc etc. Ours also referred to paediatrics for ASD assessment and also to CAMHS for anxiety. Camhs worked with me rather than directly with DD, first in a group (online) then one to one.

Go to GP and ask for a referal for an autism and adhd assessment through right to choose.

Make an appointment with class teacher and senco. List the issues and ask what adjustments they can suggest and any others she should be refered to eg school nurse, emotional regulation groups. Ask them to start the EBSNA tool kit. Ask for her to be put on SEN register.

Early help may also be able to offer advice.

When she is given her highnschool place contact the SENCO and ask for a meeting to discuss concerns.