Independent vs State

[Sarmarl]

Hi, I am just looking to see what others would do in my situation. We are a legal immigrant family, from North America. White skinned, and DD speaks English as first language. We live in a good neighborhood and DD goes to "excellent" state school. We are not in the south of England. I have felt since moving here something isn't right in the social aspect of my daughter's integration at school. Nothing extreme, just not making too many friends, seems lonely, has a couple of friends, but not really living a great experience socially. DD going into year 7. Over the summer holiday she received very sad WhatsApp messages about her not being British, to leave the country, how she should not be here, even pressuring to send photos of herself to make sure she was not a "fatty". This was in a school year WhatsApp group, with over 60 children. None of her "friends" stood up for her, only one girl who is not even her friend stood up for her. This happened in July and then again in August. She was verbally attacked by many children in the chat. I am sickened that she is going through this. I will contact the school as soon as possible. We had her apply to independent schools, she was accepted, but husband no longer wants to put her in bc of the cost. I completely respect his view. We can afford the tuition, but he feels the return of the cost is not worth it. I feel differently. I think that at such a young age, being bullied and especially for your race can be extremely damaging. Also I will work with her current state school on this, but I think that these racist comments are coming from kids who learn this at home, and I feel this is a broader issue, and probably why my DD is not really integrating well. The state school she attends has almost zero diversity, as the area we live in has very little diversity. I hate the situation. I would love to hear stories of why some of you decided to put your children in independent school? What would you do in my situation even if your kids are in state schools? Financially we can make it work, would just mean possibly not buying a home and not going on holidays. But I feel that is better than having my daughter get racially bullied at 11 years old. Unfortunately I don't think my daughter should be the one to suffer to change other kids or families views, I don't think this will change...

Your daughter is getting bullied she’s American and white?

What the heck is the school thinking of having a WhatsApp group for 11yos - presumably, from that overt bullying, with no teacher overseeing it. Sounds incredibly foolish and irresponsible. Definitely talk to them - even if you end up sending your DD elsewhere, they need to put a stop to that.

How many of these children are going to school with her in year 7? I’d find a different school, and make sure she doesn’t join any group chats. Social media has age limits for a reason.

She shouldn't be on WhatsApp. It is really dangerous.

All sounds very unlikely.

I don’t think this is racist, this is bullying and nasty. Take evidence/ screenshots etc and make sure your daughter deletes nothing. Then take it into the school - this should be acted on very quickly by the school.
On a different note, why are you allowing your daughter to use WhatsApp? She is 11. Get her off it. She is a child.

Is your dd starting a new school this year, ie secondary?

If you haven’t tried the school yet I would

1. stop her using WhatsApp! (Our ds age 14 has WhatsApp but only allowed selected individuals he is happy with and we are as well, basically a few mates, as contacts - we police it often, no other social media. This has led to no issues so far. May seem draconian but horrible things happen so easily on these platforms)
2. Try the school but have a low threshold if there are issues to move her.

I can assure you that this has happened. I included that she is white, native English speaker, and American, to give context. I thought my child was "protected" from racism here. Shocking when you run smack into this, especially after thinking your "white privilege" somehow protected you. Also to show how much worse it would have been for, if she was middle eastern or asian. I know things in the UK are tense now, but be careful with what children hear from parents, they then repeat it in a very mean way to children who do not deserve the hate. It is heartbreaking to see your child attacked online and told to "leave the country" by many children. She even asked me what she should do if her teacher tells her to leave the country? Sad that she would ask that question. Sad that she cannot feel included, but is made to feel excluded. This is so damaging to her psychology. We are here legally. I understand there is a problem with migration. Point your anger at the government who is in charge, don't let it trickle down to your children who will then attack other children. They don't understand the damage they are doing. We do not live in a "rough" area, middle class. The girl who is the ring leader in the racial attacks is on a jumping horse in her WhatsApp. To jump that well at her age shows she comes from middle or upper class. Yet no education. Sad, that this is the environment we are living in. I will take everything to the school, everything is documented, ask to speak to the parents, and I believe it should go further up. I believe this qualifies as hate incident in UK, and should then be reported to police...?

Why do you think that? People can be very unpleasant about Americans, think they’re all gun-toting obese rednecks who voted for Trump.

I would absolutely take her out if this school

I don’t know whether it’s real or not, but you only need to read comments on mumsnet to know how anti American many people are.

OP you have not responded to questions about why a group of 60 pupils going into year 7 have their own, unmonitored, WhatsApp group. Certainly I've never heard of such a thing.

You are telling us that over 60 former year 6 pupils have a phone and a private WhatsApp account that they have been given unsupervised access over the holidays?

Which school are you planning on taking the messages too? Her primary or her secondary?
There is a bit more to unpick here and this isn't really a question about state vs private (as your DH doesn't want to pay anyway).

SOME Private schools deal with bullying better than SOME State schools, it was ceratinly the case for us but its not universal.
I don't think going Private is the solution, especially since its a struggle financially and your H isn't keen on the idea.
This isn't racism, America isn't a race and while there is no doubt some anti American sentiment from some people it is unusual in children.
Work with the school to tackle it or try and change schools

Bullying is not less likely in Private schools than state.
But why you are allowing an 11 year old on WhatsApp especially unmonitored. Nevermind non- limited access to a mobile.
These are the things you need to deal with first.

That is if any of this is true.

And it would be just as bad if you were a Black family with English as a second language. Bullying is bad !

There can be xenophobia targeted at Americans but it’s that and not racism. Why you allow your child in year 7 to be in a what’s app group is questionable.

Firstly, I am so sorry you are experiencing this as s family, and especially that your daughter is being bullied in this way. I speak as the English wife of a 30-year immigrant from the Philadelphia Main Line and mother of two boys. When my husband came to UK he was continually subjected to snide comments about his nationality- for about the first 20 years. I do consider it a form of racism (understanding the American is not a race). Things were said to him that nobody would consider acceptable if directed at any other Nationality.

But the behaviour of the children on this WhatsApp group sounds to me more like bullying, for which they have used the anti-immigration tensions to justify and embolden themselves. They are 'othering' your DD on the basis of being an immigrant because that is the zeitgeist and they are repeating what they've heard at home and/or on social media. They probably aren't anti-American but are trying out how if feels to target an outsider.

I don't know whether it's a state vs private school issue, but I would be taking a hard look at the school she's in, and if this bullying is reflective of the local community I'd be thinking about whether to stay or move. My own DC are in the Independent sector and have a more diverse student body than where we live. The school also controls/limits access to devices especially out of hours, and I'm pretty confident they would come down on this bullying like a ton of bricks. But the same should also be true of a decently pastoral and well-led state school.

I do believe the anti-immigration activities will dial down once people realise they've been manipulated by malignant actors. But I'm afraid in this case the bullying will move onto some other aspect of your DD that showjumping girl takes against.

Sending best wishes from a nationally embarrassed random Internet stranger.

Thank you Reswallie80 for your kind comments. It is encouraging and nice to have someone's comments that help. Instead of pilling on me about "what's app" and this is not "racism", let's "unpack" all of your failings as a mother, or schools fault. Instead of seeing what is right in front of them. I think it is had to understand until you are the target. I sure didn't, until my daughter was. It's a type of privelage many of us walk around with, but it's so sad and false. Maybe racism isn't the right word, maybe what's app is the mistake. The point is there is a lot of hate going around and an 11 year old should not be the target of it. The comments were specifically telling her she should not be in England, she should not cross the English boarder, she should leave the country, get out, etc....It just really bums me out. It is in fact 'othering'. And it is very sad when your child is the target. Also when other kids do not stick up for her. We have decided to keep her in the same school for now. We will need to talk to the school, problem is that daughter DOES NOT WANT us to talk to them. Will have to figure something out. I just want people out there to be careful with the hate you are consuming online. It is a very slippery slope. You think that it is okay to be upset about immigrants. Not here to argue that, it's your country and that is justified. Just make sure the targets don't end up being innocent children. When kids learn it's okay to "other" people at home, they think it is okay with their own peers. Be angry with your government, not innocent people. Please teach your kids kindness.

Isn't it termed 'victim blaming' and 'gaslighting'- both serious crimes in Mumsnetland until there's an opportunity to stick it to the American.

It probably would be better to pull your daughter out of the WhatsApp group although you'll need to be vigilant for other more traditional forms of bullying. I think the bulk of kids on there perhaps feel invisible and grown up so able to act in ways they wouldn't dare to face to face. It may be that because your DD is white and from a rich, powerful country the kids think racist or xenophobic bullying somehow doesn't count. But of course it does. I'd screen shot the conversation and confront school with it- they need to know if their new Y7s are behaving like an online mob.

This is a horrible experience for your poor DD- I'm so sorry. There's an important challenge and opportunity for you now as parents, since bullied children do often grow into bullies themselves. You will need to
reinforce her innate empathy and inner strength, and show her how important kindness to outsiders snd the vulnerable is, so she doesn't ever repeat this behaviour to others.