Is the purpose of education to enlighten going people or just serve as a means of deciding employment opportunities?

[mids2019]

I think many parents of asked by their children what the point of school was would use the argument 'you need good grades to go to university and get a good job'.

In a way I can sympathise as it is hard for children to see the immediate benefits of quadratic equations or the driving force behind Lady Macbeth without having some understanding that expertise across the board at GCSE leads to better life chances.

It just brings me to think how many children are focusing on their studies because an innate love of the subject and how many focus on learning with future job opportunities in mind? I am reminded of students when I was at school learning physics at A level as an absolute chore but with the understanding that this A level was a good science to take for their desired profession, medicine.

Do teachers feel the bright students are driven by intellectual curiosity or by a desire to simply use their intelligence to optimise formal qualification grades for future employment openings?

Young people not going people

Either way…. I suspect you may benefit from some extra English language education!

What is wrong with my English?

I got an A in my GCSE so must be good !

😆

You are creating a false dichotomy here. It’s both of these things, and more.

I suppose that's the point. Are we all just sitting exams to get letters on a piece of paper which indicate your ability in subjects and if so why? Do people have a great desire to be the next Shakespeare when sitting English or are they just wanting to jump a hurdle to get into the next round of education leading to those job opportunities ?

I think there is an amount of cynicism, not about education, but the use of education. Ultimately children should be passionate about education but over time the passion in many cases becomes replaced by the realisation that the essay on MacBeth or understanding the British monarchy has as much to do with life chances and employment as it does about reflection about the human character or power.

That obviously is an opinion but I am sure many parents tell their children to 'try hard,get good grades, get a good job'. Mine did.

I'm assuming there are learners who just love learning anything, those who love certain subjects and see themselves doing that subject as a career , those who are studying as a means to an end. Then there are those who don't see the point of any of it and don't attend or try hard , those who struggle to engage with school for myriad reasons. Plus students in many other circumstances or motivations.

I actually remember our Biology A level teacher asking us what was our motivation and I was quite taken back as I'd never even thought about it before. I just used to love learning and the personal reward of doing well, however as I got into A Levels the motivation changed to getting into Uni , but I did also love the subjects too. Understanding the world helps with my wellbeing even now.

I think it's a very interesting question. My dp certainly used getting good grades as a means to an end ( getting out of poverty)
I toed the line at school, just because I was an obedient kid and it was expected of me, and did reasonably well.
My love of learning came later, and I tried to instil that and curiosity into my children when they were small. My best friend is a university lecturer and I love spending time with her as she's so enthusiastic about her subject. I imagine her students feel the same way. I wish she had been my teacher!

Virtually no five year old has a passion for reading.

if the purpose was just to decide job opportunities there would not be so much focus on trying to make sure nearly everyone is capable of reading and writing and doing basic maths.

there’s a minimum level of education needed to engage with society these days. It’s very hard if you cannot read or write.

at later stages in education, sure there is more of a clash between these two functions.

I think the ideal is a passion for learning but I do increasingly believe that the pursuit of medication is as much about future life prospects and renumeration.

I have a 14 year old girl and my conversations about MacBeth are in reality underscores by the knowledge that a good analysis about the Macbeth's relationship is maybe less about a true desire to understand the play but more about ensuring she has a good GCSE portfolio going forward for university choices. I think a lot of parents when speaking candidly feel the same. Looking at the dearth of graduate opportunities these days I think parents realise there is an academic qualification arms race out there to secure these roles.

Are you thinking that a university education, leading to a first degree, offers employment opportunities? I don’t think that’s the case any more, unless the degree is very specific. A Masters or a Doctorate might open more doors and will certainly broaden knowledge.

A university education won’t necessarily get a young person anything, other than an experience and plenty of debt.

I’ve just read that applications are down a considerable percentage this year, so that will have an impact on the establishments themselves and not all will remain viable.

Perhaps young people see themselves as influencers these days and education in a very narrow way, linked only to their own interests and social media.

It’s not an either/or. Unfortunately the U.K. system is overly geared towards getting qualifications and early narrow specialism. Apart from the effect on individuals if they’re not fortunate enough to have academic interests congruent with employability, it perpetuates the ‘two cultures’ - bright humanities grads who are essentially scientifically illiterate has serious consequences.

I think current teaching methods do kill any latent love of learning for it's own sake. Even on here, for adults, the response to financial difficulties is retrain to get a better job. Which is expensive but governments have cut lifelong learning budgets. For adult education I pay £150 a term with the council just because I enjoy learning new things and I suspect that is the cheapest. Learning at work is all mechanistic online forms. It's very disheartening. Love of knowledge is how homo sapiens got this far!

I read it again and your post is perfectly clear.

School is there to make nice obedient office workers.

Think about the “office ready” dress code when doing A levels

I had a headmaster tell me that they were getting their pupils ready for the world of work

It hadn’t crossed his mind that not everyone worked in an office

Yes
There is no “or” and those aren’t the only two reasons why

This report answers some of your question as to why the number of uni applications have decreased and will decrease in the future:
www.hepi.ac.uk/2024/10/24/the-coming-decline-in-the-number-of-18-year-olds-makes-the-future-bleak-for-some-universities/

Don’t worry, your DD will be applying to Unis when the number of student age kids will be declining. It’s not an arms race, quite the opposite. Less desirable Unis will close and Oxbridge could take ABB students again..,,

Education is the lighting of of a fire, not the filling of a vessel.

That's what I learnt in secondary school. Then I studied Sociology, Politics and Economics and became cynical and disillusioned.

The point of compulsory education was to create a better educated workforce ie reading/writing and maths. It had nothing to do with learning for the sake of learning.
Education today is more about grades on paper than being prepared for the workforce.
Unsurprisingly, if you're interested in a subject then you will do better in it.