What Would You Say I Should Do for University In This Situation?

[kmo0416]

Some of you may recall prior posts I made but here's an update and I hope you can give some advice.

Background:
When I was in Year 13, I applied to Cambridge and got an offer. However, I ended up underperforming and missing those grades because I received a late diagnosis of Autism - and although I was assessed as qualifying for extra time - it was too late in the year for my school to submit an application to the exam board to get the extra time. This meant I was disadvantaged in my A-Level exams and ended up getting BBB when I had been predicted to achieve 3 A-Stars. The predictions were based more heavily on classwork and coursework than in other years due to the impact of Covid, during which schools had to rely on the performance of their students during the year rather than rely on singular tests. (That is before anyone says that I shouldn't have been predicted such high grades in the first place).

Naturally, this meant that I lost my Cambridge offer but I also lost my insurance offer.

I didn't want to go through Clearing so decided to take a gap year so that I could apply elsewhere and so I could retake my A-level exams since I knew that I would now have the ability to reach my full potential as I would get extra time. I didn't return to school and stayed at home for the year. This meant I applied via UCAS independently which caused issues as I didn't have anyone to give me predicted grades as my old school refused and this caused a lot of hassle for me which meant that I ended up missing the Oxbridge deadline of 15th October. This is despite the fact that I intended to reapply to Oxbridge - Oxford specifically this time.

The reason why I wanted to apply to Oxford despite retaking my A-levels was threefold: firstly, I knew that I had been disadvantaged and so the grades that I had got were not truly reflective of my abilities; secondly, Oxford has a much more holistic and in-depth admissions process than most other UK universities and they told me that they would factor in any extenuating circumstances which was good since I had a doctor's letter handy and also, I heard of other students who had got in after resitting their A-levels due to certain extenuating circumstances or who were resitting their A-levels this year and still applying which made me hopeful; and finally, because I just really liked Oxford.

So, when I missed the Oxbridge deadline, I was really upset since I felt that I had blown that chance of me possibly having another shot at Oxbridge. This is especially since my admissions test (which was used for other universities as well) went very well.

I then discovered that Oxford and Cambridge ran Foundation Year programmes for those from disadvantaged backgrounds - like those who went to a state school, were on Free School Meals etc and who would otherwise be unable to make a competitive application to Oxbridge. And, the deadline for these were the end of January so they were still open. Just for the record, I really, really did not want to apply to either of those programmes or attend either as I knew that I did not need them since the only reason I was retaking my exams was because I did not get the extra time and because I felt like they would be a waste of a year for me. The programmes offer a year of study for free and if you pass you can progress to your chosen Oxbridge degree.

I was still really upset about having missed the Oxbridge deadline but I applied to the Cambridge Foundation Year nonetheless as I thought I might as well try since I had nothing to lose. The reason why I applied to Cambridge instead of Oxford is because my new A-level predicitions - which I got from a private test centre - were 3 A-stars (like last year but with extra time in my mocks this time around) and whereas Oxford for their Foundation Year programme don't want students with high grades as they think they won't benefit, Cambridge doesn't mind. (The entry requirements for the Foundation Year programmes at both universities is BBB so I had already met them but 3 A-stars was way above the requirements). So even though I preferred Oxford as a university and was planning on applying there this year, I chose Cambridge as I thought I would have a higher chance of getting in and that I might as well making use of the situation I was in.

In the meantime, I managed to get into my four other university choices - including UCL which is one of the best universities for my subject - which shows how despite my A-level resits I was still able to get into good universities. This made me regret not having been able to meet the Oxbridge deadline as I thought if I could get into UCL and they weren't minding me retaking my exams because they had carefully considered my specific circumstances and the reasons why I was having to retake exams, then surely Oxford would be just as understanding.

I half-heartedly completed the admission test and interviews for the Cambridge Foundation Year and managed to get an offer in May.

I was not at all happy that I got an offer from Cambridge because I do not want to do a Foundation Year that I do not need and would find a waste of time. However, I decided to firm Cambridge and insure UCL as I could always change my mind later.

I then did my A-level exams again (with extra time) and I think I did really well. Though, that's not saying much since I didn't need to revise much as I had already been prepared last year so this was not a case of trying to do better just a case of me proving that I was able to do well if I had had the extra time in the first place.

UCAS has something called 'reply swaps' which means that until 24th July (this Thursday), you can ask UCAS with your universities' consent to switch your firm/insurance offers around. So, I have sort of been leaving this to the last minute as I don't want the stress of having to confront this. But, now the time is almost up.

I still don't want to go to Cambridge for their Foundation Year programme - I would much rather be doing direct degree entry at Oxford. And, I know that that sounds audacious to say as if I had applied normally to Oxford, I may have been rejected, but, it's just the fact that I did manage to get into the Cambridge Foundation Year; the rest of my UCAS application i.e. admission test was good; that Oxford accepts A-level resits; and that some of those people - who I mentioned previously - who were reapplying to Oxford with A-level resits actually got in - this means that I do have a sort of 'what if?' situation going on.

You may think that I should just reject Cambridge if I really don't want to go there but it's not that easy. This is as my parents won't let me take a second gap year and even though I am happy that I got an offer from UCL (and other prestigious universities), I fundamentally don't like them either and don't want to go there either as London is too overwhelming for me.

I asked Oxford if they would accept applications from students studying elsewhere in the UK and they said normally they would not but under certain circumstances like if a student has a disability they might - and I might qualify. So, perhaps I could decline Cambridge and UCL and go to a more desirable university like Manchester for my subject - even though Manchester is not particularly prestigious and under normal circumstances, I would not want to go there. I say Manchester is more 'desirable' only because it is not too overwhelming but not too boring either - it has the perfect balance, but it's certainly not prestigious for my subject and I wouldn't really want to go there. Then, I could stay at Manchester for a year while reapplying to Oxford and other universities. I know I could get rejected from Oxford, but ultimately, this is just about me feeling that I have had a shot where I was able to put my everything into an Oxbridge application - whereas this year I didn't even meet the deadline and the year before I got an offer but missed it due to a lack of extra time.

So, this is more a case of figuring out how best to withstand the next year as I won't be able to take another gap year. I would rather 'stick it out' at a university I am more comfortable at - hence, the less overwhelming Manchester compared to UCL. But, I don't just want to 'stick it out' in any random university like Nottingham Trent - because I want a modicum of prestige as if I get rejected from Oxford, then I can stay there and I won't have entirely wasted a year. But, then that makes me not want to go to Manchester as UCL is more prestigious.

When you do the Foundation Year at Cambridge, you have to apply to universities for next year. You have to also apply to Cambridge if you want to stay there and then if you pass your Foundation Year, you automatically get a place for your degree at Cambridge, if not, then you go to your other university choices.

Recently, I have been put off Cambridge. This is as before I applied to Cambridge in Year 13, I did not know anything about Oxbridge or any other university as I had never had the opportunity to visit a faraway university or attend an open day and so my knowledge of them was based on what I read and saw online. But, recently when I visited both Oxford and Cambridge - I genuinely found Cambridge to be so undesirable as it was so boring whereas Oxford felt so much more lively. After all, as mentioned previously, I like cities that are not overwhelming like London but not totally boring like Cambridge and so Oxford seemed more attractive than Cambridge. Furthermore, Cambridge is much smaller than Oxford is.

With all that said, I was slightly relieved that I did not get into Cambridge first time around as maybe I would be upset with having to go there now!

But, this further reinforced the idea that I did not want to go to Cambridge at all - definitely not for the Foundation Year - but if I was reapplying for degree entry, I would definitely choose Oxford over Cambridge.

Therefore, it's not so simple as to say that I could 'stick it out' at Cambridge and complete their Foundation Year programme and then apply to Oxford. Because even though that is possible as you don't have to apply to Cambridge for degree entry and can choose Oxford - if I got rejected from Oxford, I wouldn't be able to stay at Cambridge since you can only apply to either or in an admissions cycle so I wouldn't have the university I was at to fall back on like if I went to Manchester or UCL.

But, ultimately, I am very upset about this whole situation as although I am okay with my gap year and don't feel behind my peers as many others have taken gap years or do 4-year courses at university, I don't want to be two years behind my peers which this whole missed Oxbridge deadline/Cambridge Foundation Year/less prestigious universities/'undesirable' (in terms of vibe and location) universities issue is putting me in.

After all, going to Cambridge would still put me two years behind as I would be doing a needless Foundation Year. Reapplying to Oxford would put me two years behind. Going to UCL would make me unhappy as I would find it too overwhelming. And I could bear Manchester for a year since it's vibe/location is okay but considering how UCL is literally higher-ranked and more prestigious and more opportune; and the fact that I would always feel like I never had a proper shot at Oxbridge - would constantly make me regretful.

Ultimately, in the best case scenario I would have applied to Oxford this year by the deadline and at least been considered. If I didn't get in, I would have not been happy but at least I would have known I tried. Then, maybe I would have been okay to go elsewhere - or maybe not since the whole prestige vs comfortable location i.e. Manchester vs UCL issue would still exist. If I did get into Oxford, that would have been perfect for me as not only would I not be two years behind my peers in getting to Oxford; not have to do a useless Foundation Year; be in a prestigious university; but I would also be in a 'desirable' city in terms of size and vibes. But, that is not what happened.

I must admit that getting into Oxford is what I would have really liked as it's what I think would be the 'perfect university for me' - the perfect combination of prestige and the sort of location/vibe that I would like. And I know that that may be audacious to say as you may be thinking, 'well obviously, anyone would want to go to Oxford if they could' - that's not so simple. To me, prestige is certainly a factor but UCL (as mentioned is also prestigious), but its location is too off-putting for me. Likewise some people may not want to go to Oxford as they might find it too stuffy. So I suppose a lot of this desire of mine to get into the 'perfect university' is just to be comfortable - comfortable that I am at a university that is prestigious enough and opportune enough for me and that is in a good location for me.

So, what would you recommend I do based on all of this?

I know that some posters on here may be frustrated that I have asked this thread some times before - but this is more of an updated version - so I hope you can answer.

I remembered some of your previous threads about this kind of thing and did an advanced search. I know some people frown on MNetters doing advanced searches on people but I do think this is relevant here.
You've posted in the last few months about things like taking the train for the first time and what the process is for using the train; you've posted about hiring a car for a driving test without seeming to understand the complications of that; there are also the various questions about uni accommodation and so on.
You also state that you have social anxiety and autism.

This all sounds very difficult and I can see why you are saying you would be overwhelmed by UCL. Having read the various things you have posted, I really think you should do the foundation year at Cambridge. It will give you a chance to ease into adult life in a smaller town (you complain about it being boring and too quiet but could you really cope with getting around a larger place as things currently stand?)
You've got a great opportunity here to do this year where you will be supported much more than if you went somewhere else and it will be easier for you to manage the beginnings of an independent life in a smaller place.

If you are successful in the foundation year you will be guaranteed a place at Cambridge (and you might find you like it by that point) or you can apply elsewhere in a much better position to begin a degree course and with more life skills to manage things like trains, buses, bills etc.

Also, just because you feel like your A-levels went well, doesn't mean that you will have achieved the grades you would need to apply to Oxford and have a good chance of getting in.

I hope you take up the Cambridge opportunity but I fear you won't, and you'll be back on here next year asking the same sorts of questions.

Oxford is not the be all and end all. There are lots of other excellent universities with great support systems in place for people with autism and social anxiety where you could thrive.

I know someone who went to Cambridge three years late. They weren’t unhappy - but they never felt entirely as one with their cohort in college. The sad fact is that 18 / 19 year olds really only want to be with people of exactly the same age. That would be the same at Oxford, UCL, Manchester, wherever.

If it were me, I would take a leap and grab whatever chance exists of starting this year. The longer you delay, the less chance there is of having the fully immersed, fun undergraduate life you’re probably hoping for.

But you’d have to be prepared to stop wallowing in perceived wrongs and throw yourself into simply living, rather than obsessing over the illusory minutiae of a perfect life.

Addendum - I vaguely recall a thread about taking the train, but haven’t seen any others.

Cambridge is lovely, btw.

Absolutely 100% do the foundation year at Cambridge. At least start it. If after 4-6 weeks you know it's not for you, you can drop out and not be liable for fees (double check the exact date).

It's quite often two weeks. But yes, she'd need to check.

The issue would be that as Cambridge term starts in October, any time to withdraw and resubmit UCAS to apply for Oxford would be very tight. Also while tuition fees may not be payable, accommodation might. Did you take a bursary op, are there conditions?

You are focused on finding your perfect option. This is very common when you are autistic. The reality in life is that there are no perfect options.
You are likely experiencing decision paralysis. The focus on Oxford is a way of avoiding making a decision.

This!

Honestly there is no answer that you can be certain will make you happy. It will depend on the friends you make, the tutors you end up with, the accommodation you get... you just have to make the best guess and then make the most of the decision you've made.

FWIW I went to Oxford, hated it and dropped out after a term 😂

Wow, you really need to learn how to summarise!

I went to Oxbridge. Many years later I was diagnosed with ADHD. I struggled enormously as a student as I was required to organise my own time so much and it was a huge jump from the structure of school. The fact that you missed the application deadline feels like a giant red flag to me that you'd cope well with the huge demands of a law course at either Oxford or Cambridge right now. The foundation year sounds ideal and I wish I could have done something similar. I get that you feel it's demeaning if you're capable of direct entry but actually it's something I suspect a lot of people would benefit from.

Cambridge is a smaller, quieter city than Oxford but once you're a student you have access to a lot of activities that aren't apparent as you wander around. If UCL feels like too much, it might be a good place to spend your first year of study. Oxford and Cambridge have similar levels of things for students to get involved in but the environment around you is a bit calmer in Cambridge.

On the foundation year at Cambridge technically you can apply to Oxford for a degree because you have to reapply and go through the whole UCAS process anyway. However, Cambridge usually expect you to reapply to Cambridge for progression to their degree course and if you chose to apply to Oxford instead but didn’t get into Oxford then you would forfeit a place at Cambridge for degree entry even if you passed the foundation because you can only apply to either Oxford or Cambridge in the same year.

So? The Foundation year doesn’t put applicants at any disadvantage regarding Oxford / Cambridge choice. It’s the same for everyone - you can only apply to one for an undergraduate degree. This isn’t worth remarking upon.

Do the foundation year at Cambridge.

Really think about what other universities to put down on your ucas form for the year after- don’t put down a London Uni, however prestigious, if you don’t think you want to be in London.

If you love Cambridge once you are there and you pass the year and get in, great, if you don’t like it or don’t pass the year, you will have had more time to think about your other four choices to see what is a good fit (Manchester, York, Exeter, whatever)

I agree, 100%. (Cambridge -educated solicitor )

For a future in law UCL is the best option by far.

I'm not sure you're the right fit for it though.

I think, for any degree, the student living in a place they are comfortable with is best for their chance of getting a good grade.

yes that's my main point when I said it's not the right fit for OP.

But my broader point is that the OP seems hung up on Oxbridge which is not necessarily the best option for law from an objective viewpoint. I wonder why that is? She's posted so many threads on this. It doesn't seem very emotionally healthy.

I would want to work on my life skills before making a university decision.

I actually went to a top 10 global Uni for a year & then took a year out to work ... just to enter world of work in all sorts of jobs (worked 7 months for a temp agency & other jobs) and figure out what I wanted and gain life skills. To become financially self-sufficient and not live under my parents' roof. I needed to learn how to do all that and lots more.

At end of the gap year I changed to go to different Uni... I needed to change my path to get to a happier place.

Go to Manchester then reapply to Oxford from there, to itch the scratch

OR

Get a job so not a gap year per se, but a saving up year, and apply to Oxford with your grades from this Summer

Good luck

I'm not sure any university is the right fit at the moment. The OP needs to work on her well being first.

You are spiralling. In the long run it actually doesn’t make much difference which uni you attend rather than what you did there. Really. There are lots of examples of this out there. Extremely successful people. There is a chance you will hate Oxford, what would you do then? Are you ready for uni life? You will come across lots of difficult situations in life. You need to make decisions and move on. What have you been doing in your gap year?

What would you think of this?

How about if I go to UCL and stay at home instead of living there so I benefit from the prestige and opportunities but do not feel overwhelmed?

I’m from near Manchester and the train journey to and from Camden would be about 6 hours (2 hours 50 minutes each way). But, that’s only for 2 or 3 days a week. Which means that I can go to UCL for lectures and seminars when needed; do the homework on the train home and when at home; and get to stay home completely for the rest of the week when there is no university happening. And if ever I felt like I was missing out, I could just hang out with any friends I made.

Interestingly, train costs would be the least of my concern as UCL offers a £15,000 scholarship for Law to those from certain disadvantaged backgrounds and also I have saved up some money during my gap year. Apparently ticket costs for one day of doing that would be about £110 a day with a railcard so about £300 a week over 39 weeks is under £12,000.

Plus, I get PIP due to my disability so that could help towards the cost.

I know this probably sounds extremely ridiculous and I am highly unlikely to do this but at this point I’m just so confused and upset and don’t know what to do.

It’s like I’ve spent my entire gap year depressed over the singular fact that I missed that Oxbridge deadline so have literally put off thinking about this until the last minute because I didn’t want to get upset by remembering the ordeal I have put myself in. But, now it’s all last minute - it’s even worse.

I was remarking on it as if I applied to Oxford while at Cambridge and didn’t get in, I would not get into Oxford but also lose my place at Cambridge. That would be very embarrassing (a position I wouldn’t want to be in) and also it would mean I wasted a year at Cambridge for no benefit. Whereas if I went somewhere else and applied to Oxford but got rejected, at least I could carry on there, not having wasted a year.

You are massively overthinking and self sabotaging here -- why would you apply to places you don't want to go? You need to make a firm decision and frankly I would choose UCL rather than waste more time.

I think that your plan to avoid London and go to UCL is completely unrealistic. Sorry. But also not. It's an excellent university and there are ways to live in London and not go completely mad.

Don’t attempt to commute to UCL from Manchester. In another thread, you said you hadn’t taken a train often? Trains are busy and can be cancelled, delayed etc. You will miss lectures and you will not be able to work on the train, and the travel will be exhausting

Dont be fucking ridiculous and take the foundation year at Cambridge. You so clearly need the support (not just academic) that this will give you even though you think you’re too good for some peculiar reason.

Sadly I suspect you’ll be back next year with some other excuse though.