HLTA's - How much whole class 'work' should they do a week?

[maidamess]

I am about to renew my contract with my school, and am hoping to achieve HLTA staus soon.

My head wants me to do 3 mornings work with a SEN child, and 3 afternoons covering whole classes for PPA time. SHe said she would pay me HLTA rate for the whole class cover part of the day.

I looked on the Unison website and it said beware of schools doing this! i.e paying different rates for differnt parts of the job.

Also, do you think 3 afternoons is a bit much for whole class teaching? I've only covered for 2 afternoons before!

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I'm not a HLTA (I'm a teacher) and our HLTAs do 4 afternoons. Personally, I think you deserve to be paid better. Can you ring your union for advice?

I am not a HLTA, but I do class cover for PPA. (have been a TA for 13 years, also have other childcare quals)

If I do a PPA cover then I get double pay. If for some reason I do a class cover for the Teacher, again I get double pay. (I do not do class cover often, just in emergency). All other TA work is single pay.

Maidamess, do you enjoy it. I do, and would be thrilled if they asked me to do 3 afternoons.

Thanks for your replies

My reservations are these...

1. I've only been a TA since Nov last year...so have only 2 afternoons whole teaching under my belt. To suddenly go to 3 a week is scary!

1. I checked on the union websites and they say schools shouldn't pay 2 different levels. If you're good enough to be an HLTA to cover a class you should be paid that all the time.

1. My school is not renowned for its handovers and communication between staff.

Also, I can't help but think I'm being used as a 'teacher on the cheap! Oh I don't know what to think!!

I mean 2 afternoons since November, not 2 a week!

We are given the choice to whether we want to do the cover. They do not think any less of us if we say no.

We have 2 pay scales as non of our TAs are HLTA trained. Normal pay for just being a TA and supporting the Teacher. Double pay for class cover over an hr.

I would feel very pleased if they have asked you to do more afternoons. Are the pay scales much different between what they want to pay you?

She didn't actually say how much more it would be. I think the 3 afternoons are a definate, every week arrangement, I just think it seems a bit much for someone who isn't a teacher to do! I need to get more details.

I think I will insist on being able to shadow the teachers for a while, or have more training. My Head is very good at seeing the 'bigger picture' without realising how it can affect the people actually doing it!

Well, it depends on your school I guess, and what you want to do.
I'm HLTA (secondary) and do 15 hrs a week cover (whole classes). That's the main reason for my existence though, so I don't get any different pay.

I know HLTAs in primary who spend almost all of their time covering PPA. I think they get paid on Scale 4.

Were you talking about me roisin???

I am an HLTA - although for various reasons I am not working as one atm - in the primary sector. Just finished at a primary school where I was paid as an HLTA to cover classes for 21 hours per week - this worked out at 2 full days plus 2 long mornings of PPA cover although I do know of HLTA's who have a full time contract and cover classes for all of that time apart from a little PPA time of their own. Any planning or marking I did was in my own time outside of my contracted hours (one of the reasons I have stopped for now) - but that was purely a school culture thing not a generally accepted principle.

The pay sounds great when you first look at it because for a full time 52 week contract you get about the same as an NQT. But for hours that are part time I found the pay is absolutely rubbish for what is actually involved - espeically if you are on a 39 week contract as I was. (Just so you know I was working 21 hours at scale 4 on a 39 week contract, I now work 18.5 hours at scale 2 but on a 52 week contract and earn EXACTLY THE SAME money).

What I would say is make sure you get plenty of time observing the classes you will teach before hand to get to know how to handle them. They will not behave as well for you as for their teacher and that will be the hardest part of the job - not the actual teaching of the lessons. Also look at what planning you will have to do and what marking is expected, will this be included in the hours you are paid for? This can take as much time as the actual teaching of the class.

If you have only been a TA since November I would be very wary of how you tackle your HLTA accreditation. I did the longer route rather than the 3 day route because I had only been a TA for a year when I started. I wanted to get some theoretical knowledge to underpin experience and to feel that I had actually spent enough time being a TA before I took that step further, and I have to admit that I feel I did the right thing. I had 3 years TA experience before I started my HLTA role and had gradually worked up from small groups to larger ones to full classes and this gave me more confidence when I took on a 'full' teaching programme.

And as a final thought some schools pay HLTA's as HLTA's no matter what they do, full class, one to one, small group (after all they are all part of the standards) whilst others don't it depends on how much money they are trying to save! The standards cover all sizes of groups when dealing with children, the only differentiation is that your HLTA status says you CAN plan and deliver in place of a teacher not that you HAVE to for all your contracted hours.

Hope this helps and I haven't gone on too much......

Of course I was talking about you!

I agree about pay though. Support jobs in school are all paid differently, and it's not always easy to find out how they are paid when the jobs are advertised.

hi ive been a TA for over 15 years and a hlta for 4 years i hlta 2/3 full days a week. I did the 3 day course to become a hlta and i am quite concerned that i get 50p an hour extra on top of a TAs wage. Within my school there are unqualified TAs teaching classes during PPA and being paid the same as a quailfied HLTA. The HLTA does not have the planning etc like the teacher but does take on the responibility of the class, supply teachers get paid enough and that basically is what a HLTA is if you ask me all a HLTA does is save the school money, what happens to that saved money it doesnt go in our pocket not at 50p an hour.Surely if we take on the role we should be paid what were worth after all teachers do put on us alot and if like at my school leave the class in your care at any time, but you dont get paid for that time because its not prearranged,we should voice our opinion and getwhat were worth and thats not 50p try £5.

As a parent and a teacher, I am quite concerned about the fact that auxiliary staff are being used to "teach" classes. It is a cheap money saving trick used by heads to balance the books.

Furthermore, I believe all children deserve a fair start and are entitled to a good education. Using TAs as class caretakers is not acceptable. Private schools do not allow Classroom Assistants to look after whole classes as their would be an uproar as parents are paying for their children's education. Why should children in the state system suffer.

I'm with cherish on this one (I'm also a teacher and parent). I'm also that a TA, not even an HLTA, is being paid double to do PPA cover. Also, wedgiesmum - planning and marking? WTF??? That's the teacher's job. HLTAs are only supposed to cover, not teach.

Quote from recent news article:
*The NUT says they should not actively teach and, if they do so routinely, then schools could be breaking the law.

"What the regulations say is you can only do specified work, which is teaching, if you're under the supervision of a qualified teacher. What you can't do is take over on your own, plan lessons, run classes etc," said John Bangs, head of education at the NUT.*

I am horrified that someone who has only been a TA for less than a year has been required to teach a class. it is precisely that sort of thing which makes teachers very cross about TAs 'teaching', and encourages them to make a lot of noise about unqualified TAs... (just try the TES forums!)

I am also horrified that a HT is even considering paying HLTA rate to a TA who is not an HLTA and who has no prospect of becoming one for at least another two years (as, fortunately, the period for which you must have worked as a TA before going for HLTA status has been extended from 2 to 3 years)

HLTAs are allowed to teach because they have produced evidence to show that they have met the standards required to gain HLTA status. HLTAs are higher level TAs by virtue of their experience.development of knowledge and expertise through PD training and their supposed excellence as TAs (and hitting those standards).

If you did have HLTA status you should be getting paid HLTA rate for all your hours because you have gained it by producing evidence that you are working at HLTA level; all the time. It has nothing to do with the duties.

As part of HLTA accreditation your HT signs a statement to say that you are working at HLTA level. Then they say there's no money to pay for the job...

I am also amazed that mumsnetters (apart from cherish & swill72..), who have a great interest in their children's education, seem unbothered by the possibility that their dc might be taught on a regular basis by an inexperienced, 'unqualified' TA.

I am a parent and I am concerned.
My DS1 said he was very unhappy with his progress in Yr4. A little over three weeks ago he told me his teacher was very rarely in class. He stated that the TA took most lessons and marked the work.
Other parents have approached me and asked if I removed my son because of dreadful and mostly absent yr4 teacher and lack of progress. Two parents said they were concerned that their child had said the TA took most lessons.
Unfortunately I am not in a totally neautral position where I could take the matter up with the school.

The new government have cancelled HLTA training funding so schools or TAs would have to find funding elsewhere

I have been an HLTA for 4 years. I do 2 afternoons a week PPA cover, which includes planning, delivery and marking, and teach MFL 2 mornings a week, also including planning, delivery and marking. I also do some ad hoc cover for absent staff, but am not expected to plan or mark. Otherwise I support teachers and take small groups. I am lucky enough to be on Scale 6 (TAs are on Scale4, and Cover Supervisors are on Scale 5), but I still think the school gets a good deal out of all of us. Although we have not any formal teaching qualifications, the requirements to gain HLTA staus are quite rigorous, and we can bring years of expertise and experience to our work.

I was under the impression that HLTAs couldn't 'teach', only 'take' lessons? Which of course is rubbish anyway, since there is little difference apart from in terminology.

I am quite happy to be corrected - I also thought that, far from 'rigorous', HLTA training amounted to only 11 weeks?

I agree that I want a fully qualified teacher teaching my dd. TA's are great for providing support, small group work etc, but IMO and IME, they aren't paid enough or have enough teaching experience to cover a whole class. If they were, then surely we might as well get rid of fully qualified teachers and save a fortune...

HLTA status is achieved by 3X1 day sessions & a portfolio showing the candidates experiences/ other qualifications etc it's more confirming the level of work you are capable of rather than a training course. Interviews are also held with teacher/ member of SMT to discuss your work. You shouldn't be on the course without already being capable of working at that level IYSWIM

Sorry, but that is in no way rigorous.

this is an old thread

Nope not rigorous!

Didn't notice it was an old one

It's not rigorous providing you are already competent at the 30 or so standards required. I have enquired recently and it seems you write a series of 'essays' (five?)detailing your experiences of all these standards.