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Original poster

Student teacher insisting ds does his homework at lunchtime.

74 replies

cornsilk · 21/05/2008 19:38

My ds is very disorganised about his homework and often comes home without worksheets etc. School realise this, were advised by ed psych to use organisational cards 2 years ago, which they didn't do. Anyway he has a student teacher at the moment. She has said he has to stay in tomorrow lunchtime to do a maths worksheet. I know for a fact he didn't bring it home as I always check his bag, but she is insisting he had it.
So, can she insist he uses his lunchhour for homework?
Isn't it her responsibility to ensure he has his homework sheet etc if she is enforcing it?
He is 10 by the way.

OP posts:

Original poster

cornsilk · 21/05/2008 22:24

my hair (sounded very mancunian then!)

OP posts:

kid · 21/05/2008 22:28

I think its important to always appear to back the teacher infront of your children, even if thats not the case.
Like someone said earlier, you are at risk of letting your son feel he is exempt from the rules.
My DD has SEN, including being disorganised. She has a little diary that she writes important things in, well she considers them to be important. She takes responsibilty for PE kit days, homework, reading book and musical instruments on different days. She is 9.

If I were in your shoes, I would either go in for a chat with the class teacher or the student teacher, or if thats not possible, write a letter. I don't think its neccessary to go to the head at the moment. They won't keep your son in for the entire lunchtime, it will be for part of it. You never know, he may even learn to take better care of his homework after this exerience?!

Original poster

cornsilk · 21/05/2008 22:32

Thanks fizzbuzz. On a course I've been on one of the things we looked at has been the SEN and disability act. We were given this scenario as an example of discrimination.
'Towards the end of a lesson, the teacher writes the homework task on the board. A pupil with dyslexia in unable to copy it all down in time and does not do the homework. He is sent to the headteacher and 'told-off'. As this is not the first time this has happened, a letter is sent to his parents and he is given 'lines' to write out.'
I am just using this as an example,but I do think the situation with my ds is similar.

OP posts:

Piffle · 21/05/2008 22:34

ds1 was like this. His yr6 teacher said he could lose everything if he did not change his disorganised ways.
they pulled rank and I supported them. Withdrew playstation, pocket money and tv and lunchtimes and used reward system with aforementioned things.
worked really well. Truly best to nip in bud now as come secondary school things get 100x worse 6 x more worksheets.
ds1 manages... Had we not done that in yr6 he'd not be that competent

Original poster

cornsilk · 21/05/2008 22:36

I think I want to see the Head more about the need to use organisational cards with him really, rather than this issue. I think I'll ring and speak to the class teacher.

OP posts:

scaryteacher · 22/05/2008 00:31

It is right that a student teacher should not be left on their own with a class as the legal responsibility rests with the class teacher who is employed by the school.

Whilst I appreciate that your ds has organisational problems, the student may have been going to give up her lunchtime to help him with the work - not unknown - I used to do it a lot, as then the h/w was done and could be handed in. He will need to begin to sort this out for secondary as it will get harder, and teachers do chase for homework. I expected that the SEN students would have had a go at the homework, even if it was just a couple of sentences, and if they were given a sheet for homework, then I expected it to be in their bags hen they got home.

My ds is also v disorganised and will be getting a detention tomorrow as he has lost his maths sheet and so hasn't done the h/w (blames everyone but himself) and I won't be reminding him to print out his history homework to hand in either. I am fed up with organising him, as by the end of year 7, he should be sorting himself out, and I speak as a year 7 tutor during my last year in teaching.

LynetteScavo · 22/05/2008 00:51

Cornsilk a lot of the post on this thread are very harsh, IMO, but I think alot of the posters arn't aware of your DS's needs and difficulties.

I think the studant teacher can keep your DS in at luch time, but if you don't think it's a wise move, intervene, and ask for the sheet to be sent home tommorow.

I'm presuming consistancy is important to your DS. Do you think keeping him in at lunchtime will have a negative effect on his bhaviour?

mobileslostisitinthefreeze · 22/05/2008 00:54

If ed-pshyc told the school to use the cards two years ago, why haven't you been into complain that they have not been in use before now. You have had every parents evening, statement review,informal meeting with the teacher for two years to complain. You and I both know how hard it is to get a statement, how you had to pushed and kick up a fuss for it; well kick up a fuss and push, push and push some more for the cards too.

susiecutiebananas · 22/05/2008 01:18

Interesting variety of answers to your OP.

As lynettescavo says, it seems that a few posters are not aware of your Ds' personal special needs. Student teacher or not, it is so important that his difficulties are dealt with consistently, by all who are involved in his education. even if it were a locum teacher ( can't for the life of me remember the right term for it! )

I think that it is unfair to give a child of his age a full lunchtime detention anyway. I've never heard of primary school children having such punishment. Maybe being kept in a playtime or for 10 minutes of lunch but the whole lunchtime seems a little excessive to me.

The main issue for me here, is that it is recognised that he has genuine problems relating to organizational skills. Its not simply a case that he's lazy, scatty disorganized etc, but that it is due to his SEN which are 'diagnosed' and recognised, this is why it is really wrong to punish him for it! Just seems really really wrong to me. Surely that would be like punishing a dyslexic student for not writing everything down in class in time, or mis-spelling things etc, if that is the area they have the most difficulty. How is this different? He is being punished for something he cannot help easily. [hmm

I would say you are perfectly justified in talking to his class teacher who has overall responsibility for him (and the student teacher.) I hope you can get this sorted out in a way that is appropriate for you Ds.

guitar · 22/05/2008 08:45

i think the term disorganisation is at fault - i don't think a child being disorganised is a special need in itself it is a sign he's "away with the fairies" as my mother would say and should be dealt with on a consequences basis. I thinkt here is a modern habit of labelling problems and giving soft, child-can-do-no-wrong, it is all eveyrone else's responsibilty rather than action = consequence for child. I can totally understand how if a child has a particular SN such as autistic specturm that affects their understanding of what is required then its different. Life is about overcoming our innate difficulties - some kids need to try harder than others.

i think piffles approach sounds perfect

RubberDuck · 22/05/2008 09:44

"As lynettescavo says, it seems that a few posters are not aware of your Ds' personal special needs"

To be fair, with the size of mumsnet as it is these days, you can't assume anyone knows anything about your personal set of circumstances and people will respond to the amount of information given. Especially if the information is highly relevant.

I think once the special needs were spelled out more clearly, the posts did adapt and change to make allowances for that.

cornsilk: "he wouldn't look at me tonight cos I had my hair done and it was 'different'" reminded me a lot of my ds1 when he started school. He really couldn't cope if the routine deviated at all from the standard school routine. School learned to give him 48 hrs notice of any planned changes (like main teacher away, moving classrooms for a special activity for example) otherwise he'd really be thrown for a loop. And your example made me smile as I still clearly remember when I cut my hair short he HOWLED at the first sight of me, came home and searched all the bins for my missing hair. I'd forgotten that.

Fortunately in our case, he's been able to go a little more with the flow as he's got older but I can certainly see that keeping him in for a lunch time detention is inappropriate in his case. Having done part of a PGCE at one time though, my guess is still that the student teacher hasn't been passed on all the agreed strategies and is a genuine mistake. I think cat64's approach is spot on and likely to have the best outcome.

Will you let us know how you get on?

RubberDuck · 22/05/2008 09:46

Erm that should read "Especially important if the omitted information is highly relevant" in the second para.

TheFallenMadonna · 22/05/2008 09:48

It's a special educational need in that a child often needs extra help to manage it. What's wrong with that?

RubberDuck · 22/05/2008 09:55

I think the difference is though that while general disorganisation IS a need that has special circumstances, it can be dealt with very successfully with a bit of tough love as well as giving strategies on how to be better organised.

In this case, however, there appear to be much deeper needs including a need for regular routine and being unable to adjust to sudden goalpost changes which turned an otherwise appropriate sanction into an unfair discrimination.

LynetteScavo · 22/05/2008 10:09

Guitar. I'm so at your post. Do you know how bloody hard it it so get recognition af a childs SEN? Many parents struggle daily with thier childs SN, quietly with no support. I'm fuming too much to write a proper post now.

"Away with the fairies"???

How are things today, Cornsilk?

I'll be back

Original poster

cornsilk · 22/05/2008 10:30

Hi Lynette - I didn't dare answer guitar's post - let's just say my feelings about it are similar to yours!
We're okay at the moment - only one day this week when he's been late. (only one! As if that's a good thing!)
Dh phoned the teacher who was very defensive and said they were doing all they could already to help him in class. I thought he would be a bit arsey about it. However they're sending it home tonight with him.
How's your ds these days?

OP posts:

guitar · 22/05/2008 10:32

sorry to offend

LynetteScavo · 22/05/2008 10:59

Cornsilk, only being late once this week, is brilliant!

Glad to hear the work is comming home- that seems to make much more sence.

My DS is OK, although we had a commedy morning, with him hiding because he didn't want to go to school. He had pursuaded DS2 to hide him in a cupbaord under lots of toys, then made him promise not to tell where he was. DH and I were getting a bit stressed when we couldn't find him, and DS2 kept saying "He's safe, but I promised I wouldn't say where he is, I promised". I managed to get him in, just on time, with trainers rather than school shoes, and glasses with one lense missing.

Thank heavens for half term.

Original poster

cornsilk · 22/05/2008 11:17

Lynette that's so funny!

Yes, roll on half term! Who cares if he's in his pyjamas all day!

Guitar don't worry - I'm being precious about him I know!

OP posts:

LynetteScavo · 22/05/2008 12:54

Guitar, Mumsnet would be very boring if we all just came and posted hugs to each other. I think I was angry at a lot of the posts on this thread, and yours was just the most recent. You bought up some points that I should probably start a seperate thread about.

Sorry for shouting.

guitar · 22/05/2008 13:03

oh god don't apologise to me - it is refreshing to see real feelings - and you are entitled to your anger and to direct it at whoever has pissed you off - doesn't make you more right than me - just coming from a different position - i am sorry for the offence though

lazymumofteenagesons · 22/05/2008 15:47

I think that lunchtime detention and staying in to do homework thats been forgotten are 2 different things.

I don't think your son would benefit from 'detention'. But he will get behind in his work if the homeworks aren't completed. Staying in at break to do it seems the only way. Would you prefer he brought it home the next day and then maybe it would start piling up and become unmanageable?

LynetteScavo · 22/05/2008 16:00

Oh guitar, I am more right than you.

cory · 22/05/2008 16:13

When my NT ds (7) was kept in at lunchtime for failing to bring home homework=failure to complete it, I told him not to think of it as punishment: this was work that needed to be done at some stage to help with his learning. He hadn't done it in the evening, so therefore he needed to get it done, for his own sake.

This approach might help the OP's ds, but if his SN is such that he can't cope, then the school should pay attention to that, or they are at risk of breaking the law.

Another thought of course is that the person who picks ds up after school could perhaps ask if he has his homework. This is something I have to do for ds, who is not dyspraxic but still very very disorganised.

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