St. Michael’s CoE N6 - religious aspect

[Highgateparent]

For parents with children at St Michael’s CoE Primary School (N6) that are not actively Christian or religious - how do you feel about the religious impact on the content and activities at the school? Is science, history etc taught factually? How do you manage these conversations with your child when they are expected to write prayers, etc? Is the school truly high standard in preparing for 11+ (we are definitely planning on private for secondary, if not primary as well - also considering Avenue Pre-Prep) or is heavy tutoring required?

We know St Michael’s has excellent historical academic performance and are considering it for our son. Attended the open day and were impressed by the grounds, staff and children we’ve met. We are agnostic however and I feel very uneasy about the religious aspect.

Thanks so much in advance.

Concerned Highgateparent

Are you really asking if a state school in the UK teaches science factually or teaches creationism (which is, I assume, your implication)?

what are your concerns about history? What religious slant do you think they’re putting on it?

as a different point, the UK has a state religion. There are, therefore, no secular state schools in the UK. Some are funded by churches, some are not, but every state school has a legal requirement for worship etc. If you want secular you need to pay for it.

@PotteringAlonggotkickedoutandhadtoreregister

Thanks very much for responding. Yes, had difficulty getting a clear answer from them on creationism, saying they teach ‘multiple variations of the creation story’. My concern is more broad I suppose, just how much Christian ritual and rhetoric children are actually exposed to on a daily basis, and how non-practicing families deal with this.

We know there are secular state schools in the area as well (eg Highgate Primary) but are not as strong.

Would love to specifically hear from parents at the school. Any information would be so appreciated.

We know there are secular state schools in the area as well

they won’t be secular. There are no secular state schools in the UK. Some are more light touch than others but, as I said before, if you want a completely secular school you will have to pay for it.

You do, however, have the legal right to opt out of RE / collective worship etc if you want to.

I’d recommend you try asking this on a local Facebook group (Highgate / MH). I visited the school a few years ago and had similar questions/ concerns.

I dont get why people pick schools that are blatantly CE or Catholic and then wonder "how religious will they be?" Its totally unreasonable. Find a school that isnt. They will still teach RE because they are obliged to. And they will likely have a broadly Christian outlook (although nowadays its likely to be almost nonexistent - even the play at Christmas might feature all sorts of random non nativity elements nowadays).
Just chose a different school! Its like going into a vegan restaurant and asking for a chicken meal. Also if its bothering you at this point it will only bother you more once your child is a pupil there. Why make it difficult for you, your child and the school when there are plenty of other schools nearby (very different issue if you happen to live in a rural village and the only school for miles is CofE)

I had children there until recently. We are Christians. There were a range of beliefs - a few families actively involved in local churches, some of other religions/denominations, but I would say that perhaps half of children at St Michaels are not from Christian families.

As background, the St Michael’s school was set up by the church to educate poor children before education was compulsory in the UK. In 1880, education to the age of 10 became obligatory in the UK. Rather than just open lots of new schools, the government began to contribute to the existing schools operated by churches. In Highgate, the church owns the large and lovely site of St Michael’s, but most of the operating costs are paid by the local authority. Being a Church of England school means that the church and diocese appoint members of the governing board, and that the school has a religious character.

Assembly - the daily act of “worship” in UK schools is led by someone from a local church once a week, but on other days often had very little Christian content, according to my children. Some of the big events are Church orientated - all the children make Easter bonnets to parade from school to church for the Easter service, at the y6 leavers’ service the children are given a bible.

They follow the national curriculum - you can see more info on the website. This means that for science and history, the teaching is factual - creationism will not be taught in science. There is no national curriculum for RE - I think they follow the Diocese of London curriculum. This involves spending some time learning about Christianity, but also plenty studying other religions.

When you asked about the creation story, I guess the teachers thought this was a question about RE - there are two creation stories in Genesis, and so I imagine they teach both…

Personally, I would have liked more Christian content in subjects like RSE. They used a secular curriculum, but I would have liked one with more Christian values - if faith means anything it should permeate our relationships.

In terms of academics, they don’t prepare children for 11+ exams. Families use tutors, or parents tutor. However, the school attracts a bright bunch of children and teaches to a high level.

Are you not from the U.K.? If you are, the chances are you went to an Anglican primary school, so you’d know. They teach science and history factually in an age appropriate way and they cover a bit of scripture in RE (which is a compulsory subject). Scripture might include the start of Genesis or gospel stories, such as the nativity, which they might perform at Christmas. It’s very gentle and not indoctrinating.

@KewpieQp Thanks ever so much for sharing, that was so helpful and insightful. Exactly what I was looking for.

@Genevieva Thank you for responding - yes, I was educated in the US and only recently became familiar with the UK’s educational system (my son is 2.4y).

It seems the influence is ‘light’ at St. Michael’s, yet still feel unease if my child would attend and have weekly worship/Assembly and yet not have this practiced at home. And abstaining could make them feel odd/an outcast.

I do think many Christian values are beautiful and valuable for children to live by, very much understand your perspective that they could do more here @KewpieQp.

That makes sense. In the US a religious school is very much a special and informed choice because of the separation of church and state. The UK is constitutionally Christian and has successfully remained so because it is light-touch. I actually think it’s a very good way of demythologising religion. The only friend I have who is a very committed evangelical Christian was brought up by staunch atheists who took her out of school assemblies because they had prayers. Faith was something mysterious and forbidden. Religious education is a really strong differentiator in England. All children should learn about all of the six major world religions and look at how at least 2 of them deal with contemporary ethical issues like climate change, abortion and euthanasia, crime and punishment and war and peace. They learn that not all members of the same religion agree on all of these matters because they interpret their religion differently.

@KewpieQp do you know if STM allows children from other religions at all? I wanted to apply but looks like we wouldn't have a shot

When they say they “ teach multiple versions of the creation story” they will teach both Christian ideas about creation and also those of other world religions as well as the views of atheists.

There is points-based process for admissions. There are points for being a regular worshipper of any religion - 4 points for Church of England, 3 for other denominations, 2 for other religions. The thought was that people of other faiths might want a faith school for their child and some faiths don’t have schools locally. Also 4 points for living in the area, 3 for attending the nursery.

All on the Admissions page of the website.

So definitely worth applying, especially as you can apply for several schools.

The school has been undersubscribed from my understanding in recent years.

I have heard very good things about the school from Facebook and the community but our friend’s dc (who were desperate to get in also) was bullied at the school and the school didn’t care so they left mid year to protect their dc. I am sure it’s not the norm but there is more than just academics to a school.

I agree with what @KewpieQp has said. However, I would add that the teaching at St Michaels is no better than at Highgate Primary, in fact I would say that HP has the edge. The different attainment of pupils is because St Michaels has a large number of children from affluent backgrounds who are heavily tutored. It should not be attributed solely to the teaching which I have not found to be exceptional in any way. Both schools have pros and cons but have both been judged to be outstanding.

Also, someone upthread doubted that any state school is secular. Highgate Primary is very secular apart from doing a nativity show in reception. By contrast Christianity permeates a lot of what happens at St Michaels, there are prayers, Church services, etc.

@AbsoluteBeginner1 although they operate a points system for admissions, the school is not as oversubscribed as it used to be. Families from different/no religions and those outside of N6, do stand a chance of getting in.

Hello

I'm an atheist and my children went to a CoE primary school (not the one you mentioned).

As others have said above, there is a daily act of worship. This is usually a whole school assembly with a hymn and a short prayer. The vicar comes in very occasionally, and they maybe go to church once a term - harvest festival, Christmas, Easter, leaver's service.

In line with the national curriculum, they were taught science factually (my eldest is currently taking his GCSEs in the three separate sciences). They were taught RE has comparative religion and studied all religions equally.

They were also taught "Christian values" - of kindness, forgiveness, honest, respect, love, trust, friendship and common purpose. I could see nothing wrong with these!
this is what the school says:

These values are woven into the school's curriculum, particularly in Religion and Worldviews (R&W), and are also reflected in collective worship and the school's overall ethos. The school emphasizes the importance of understanding and respecting diverse faiths and beliefs while also promoting its own Christian foundation

As an aethiest parent I realised that I couldn't hide religion from my children. By going to a CoE primary school my children learnt about religion, but it was compartmentalised at school. They've always know that "we" don't practice a religion a religion at home. They know others do though, and superficially what that involves and I like that. Both chose to make the non-religious promise when they joined Cub Scouts.

DS(16) did have a short phase (2 or 3 weeks) of talking about Jesus Christ and being a bit religious when he was about 8, but this was a perfect opportunity for some discussions.

My DC are now both teens. Definitely not branswashed! Definitely not religious!
Definitely capable of critical thinking and have a good scientific education.