Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 6

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Continuation of previous threads to discuss VAT on independent school fees.

It’s there as much as people want to ignore Labour’s nasty side. And for some it taps into the same emotions as a policy.

Not suggesting the recent pp but on here absolutely.

Turn it into a vindictive spite-fest and you lose the moral argument. Accusing people of having grudges and taking revenge just plays into the hands of those who benefit from setting up class wars - and that is not currently the middle classes who want to educate their children privately. Given that you are confident Labour are demonstrably wrong on this, it shouldn’t actually take long to be able to demonstrate that, and you know the policy won’t get changed in the meantime. Claiming you are being picked on by people with chips on their shoulders too readily comes across as the privately educated acting superior and looking down on the hoi polloi as usual, so it’s a waste of energy and potential support. Even if it is vindictive, therefore, it’s not helpful to argue that. “Mistaken” is far more powerful.

Why should Labour get away with vindictiveness, with us politely pretending it was all just an understandable mistake <tinkly laugh>? I'm totally done with self-effacing politeness.

They vindictively attacked our children. And smirked and cheered as they did. There's no coming back from that, ever.

Yes Labour have lost the moral argument on this.

Do you have evidence of the smirking and laughing? Do you want the tax reversed, or just to make aggressive, personal attacks against individual politicians? Do you want to get others politically onside, or just play to your existing support base?

If politicians are putting people off then that’s really their doing.

Labour have lost support and some of that will be down to the people within the party.

It’s not about what the most productive argument is though - I’m not an anti-VAT propagandist. It’s an observation, borne from experience, of what motivates the people pushing it. And we know it won’t work to improve state schools because the money “raised” (which will be negligible) has just been switched from funding schools to funding housing.

Ultimately, if the government wanted to fund state schools better it would make them a funding priority. It hasn’t, rightly or wrongly. The rationale is to damage private schools - it’s that simple

But Labour aren’t putting more people off VAT on private school fees (it’s still the same people who have always opposed it), it’s more a question of some of those aggressively opposing it with accusations of vindictiveness and smirking really not coming across well to those who are sitting on the fence about it.

if you’re on the fence then fine. I’m afraid needing nice posts about Labour politicians isn’t a factor in all this.

If you do decide it’s a bad policy great, if not well up to you.

I certainly think it’s a policy that has come at a bad time and is bad for that reason alone - to put a 20% tax on school fees during a time of instability and in a cost of living crisis doesn’t seem a good move to me, because the effect is too unpredictable. It’s not a wealth tax, it’s a spending tax. The wealthy continue to accumulate their wealth and have plenty of ways to continue to avoid or minimise taxation on that wealth, whilst those with less wealth are hemmed in with fewer options, feeling that their aspirations are being crushed at a time that we need people to feel more optimistic about the economy.

I have seen the posts on Phillipson’s Facebook page. I have watched her smirk in the House of Commons. Open your eyes.

I would also like to point out that in the recent court case the judge instructed the Government’s barristers not to call the VAT policy a tax break. The Labour Party have been using this language for over a year when they publicise this policy. They want the general public to believe that private school parents have been getting an advantage over others. In fact, it was state schools who had the tax break as they were (and still are) allowed to claim back VAT on purchases without being registered for VAT. Private schools did not have this advantage. So they were paying 20% more for the same things when compared with state schools.

Time and time again I see nasty posts on social media laughing and jeering about private schools and the children that attend them and many of these talk applaud the tax break being ended. Except there wasn’t a tax break. The reality is that, like many other private school parents, I have saved the taxpayer 10’s of thousand of pounds by paying for my DC’s education.

So, yes, Labour have been deliberately whipping up hysteria.

You can watch the spending review yourself. The education bit is about 35 minutes into her speech. Listen to the cheers from Labour about putting my money 'where it belongs', with her in-group 'our kids' - deliberately keeping it away from mine - and tell me they're not vindictive.

RR might be talking about her choices and Labour's choices, but she's over-reaching to claim the British people. Labour polls aren't high, and she certainly doesn't talk for me. My child, my words, my actions, my productivity, my choices - she has no power over those. They're mine.

Before the policy came in, I wrote many posts detailing why the policy was stupid, and the consequences that would follow for everyone. At that time, I hoped that information could get people politically on-side, in acting for their own benefit.

That time has passed. Labour will only repeal the law if it becomes so evident that it's losing lots of money that even they can't manage to spin it. My words can only influence that by helping to keep this topic alive, so that they can't sweep the damage they've done under the carpet.

So no, I'm not trying to persuade you. I'm trying to make sure Labour don't get away with their vindictive sabotage.

It's a case of 'Just you wait Henry Higgins, just you wait'.

Anyone who thinks Labour won't come for something they care about in the next four years is very mistaken.

Anyone like state schools to have some individual character and take some decisions on how/what they teach?

I have no doubt whatsoever that all the parties likely to be elected will be coming for things I care about, including the lives of my children if we end up in a war. I particularly expect all the parties to find ways to shaft my children.

A Labour MP accused the parent who brought VAT case as “crying to the courts”.

Then we have a left wing TV and radio presenter celebrating the closure of a small private school …he referred to the school as a “cxxx factory”.

But we’re repeatedly told on here that the policy is not vindictive.

I thought this was a Labour policy before they appointed the supposedly vindictive state school cabinet? Or do you think that they were running it from behind all the time?

I don’t know exactly when it became Labour policy - life’s too short to find out. But the people pushing this have been pushing it for a long time within the Party, and it obviously wasn’t a policy of the last Labour government. They had the alternative cunning strategy of actually trying to make state schools better. Imagine that!

Yy - my understanding is that ot was an intent in the Corbyn days too, after the Brexit vote.

Also - I’m hazy on the mechanisms, but don’t manifestos for Labour need approval by a variety of groups - Unions? Parliamentary party? Regular members? It’s not just going to be a policy because one woman resents losing a chess match…

eta - @VaVaFrome the last Labour government was in power whilst we were in the EU, when this policy wasn’t possible.

I didn’t say anything about a chess match, but clearly Rachel Reeves has some say over the economic and taxation policy of the government for which she is the Chancellor. And yes the last Labour government may not have been legally able to introduce VAT, but I don’t think that’s the only reason they didn’t - can you really imagine Blair fronting up the policy?

Agree Blair had a better understanding of the private sector and generally how not to squash growth. He had faults of course but he didn’t do as this Starmer / Reeves gov are doing.

Exactly. People bought that rhetoric and the policy is closing schools already, there’s likely not much for the state sector after all.

It was a vindictive vote grab which will damage a sector we actually do well in. This Labour are more concerned with their own careers than growing what we can do well.

There was outrage when Old Palace announced closure, but they gave the parents a full year’s notice, which means that all the Year 10s and 12s could continue for another year.
We now have Year 10s and 12s who have covered specific exam boards, history topics, set English texts etc being completely shafted by this Government. Clearly their schools would have done everything to get emergency funding to keep the school open for these kids. I think we need to move the narrative to damage control now. Labour owe it to all kids in Years 10 and 12 caught up by this policy and they should pay for them to finish their exams. If not, it is a complete breach of their rights.

Also, as a state school parent who uses sports facilities in local private schools which very many do in our community, I am not going to be happy at all if some of these schools go bust so that Labour can get their hands on the real estate cheaply for housing. I want protection of those facilities for the whole community. I think we are at that stage too now in some communities.

There was a campaign group called "Labour Against Private Schools" which Rachel Reeves publicly backed in 2019, which sought to abolish private schools and steal take state control of their assets.

They also wanted to limit privately educated children's access to university.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/17/rachel-reeves-abolition-private-schools-campaign-labour/