BTECs or A Levels? How do I advise DS?

[Puffykins]

DS is looking at 6th form colleges. He's quite bright, predicted 7/8/9s in his GCSEs - and a 9 in music, which is what he thinks he'd like to do (he maybe wants to be a music teacher.) The local college only does a BTEC in music - but there's another one which is slightly further away that does a music A Level. I'm keen that DS doesn't accidentally narrow his choices (he also thinks that vocational engineering sounds fun - he knows nothing about engineering). Am I being biased towards A Levels? I have a suspicion that A Levels are viewed more favourably by some universities.

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I felt exactly the same. My DD was very academic but also extremely artistic and wanted to do a BTEC in Fashion and then go to Uni to follow on with a degree in Fashion. I was dead set against her doing a BTEC and felt A levels were a safer bet and would be more beneficial for her. We had many discussions and then my husband said you have to let her make her own decision. Ultimately I was wrong. She smashed her BTEC then was offered a place at DeMontford uni & the London College of Fashion the only 2 unis offering a degree in Contour Fashion (underwear & swimwear). So the morale of the tale is a BTEC didn't hold my daughter back and now at 28 she's high flying with a well paid job in London!!

Hey @Puffykins a few things to think about here.

I assume btw he is in year 10? If so then yes he needs to be applying for post-16 courses by this autumn.

It’s true that some unis will not accept Btecs; these include (AFAIK and maybe not for all courses) Oxford, Cambridge, Warwick, LSE – tho even then they may consider Btecs perhaps alongside A levels.

OTOH there are many unis that will accept Btecs. So unless Oxbridge is a realistic destination for your son, he should decide based upon the course and what else he will do. Does the Btec music take up the whole of his time post-16 or would be study other subjects? If so, what? If he took A level music, what else would he study?

Most importantly perhaps, would the Btec suit him? It's a specific way of working and requires dedicated consistent hard work to meet the requirements for the whole of the course. So it suits some students and not others. Also I imagine that what is covered differs a lot. DD took GCSE music and there was also a Btec music run in her year – for those who didn't play an instrument. So what content would the respective quals for your DS cover? Would one or the other be more interesting? that should be his focus rather than whether he could still get a pace at Oxford (unless Oxford is a desired and realistic goal).

My local sixth form college sent a dc to Oxford to study Music with a Btec in Music in Oct 2024. With sixth form options you can hold more than 1 place and decide after results day so you have plenty of time.

I think A level music is better as one of 3 A levels and then he could change his mind on a degree more readily. Many music undergrads are great at playing an instrument or singing and as composition is often part of the degree, playing the piano is recommended. I would start looking at music degrees now. The people I know who have done music degrees at high ranking unis all play musical instruments and have theory exams too. Otherwise you add behind the curve. If the degree has a narrow focus and is more music production, then BTec is fine. However look at what each university says about entry and think what might suit him best. DD has a music grad friend who went to Manchester and another who went to Oxford. Oxford grad is now a barrister. Manchester grad - manages his wife’s amazing musical career!

My dd2 has been offered a place at Warwick with 2 A levels and a BTEC in music to study film. She’s had a year off and is going in Sept.

It’s great that DC have been accepted to unis like Warwick and Oxford with Btecs. If you look at the uni websites, even those very highly rated ones will accept Btecs but as a rule it needs to be alongside A levels, and even then only in certain subjects, and not others (such as sciences). So yes I agree with Tizer, check out some courses that may be of interest and see what they say.

@claryThere won’t be many with BTecs at Oxford though. Most will be A levels plus music exams/high grade instrument exams. No formal musical instrument (they prefer piano) means you need piano lessons at Oxford. Plus there’s essays to submit. I’m not saying this to put people off - but it’s vital to check what suits DS best.

To be fair, studying film isn’t the same as studying music where certain music skills are needed on entry.

@Puffykins What does DS think vocational engineering is? Most engineering courses are vocational - although many grads don’t follow up with an engineering job! By doing a MEng, a grad is starting on a professional journey. Like a doctor.

Thank you all so much. I hasn't realised that the BTec didn't require you to play an instrument- he plays the piano and the clarinet both at Grade 6 and is a chorister who is currently preparing for his silver medal (or something- I'm not fully across the chorister qualifications.) It sounds like music A Level would be a better choice - because he actually has no idea what he wants to do. I looked more into the BTec music last night and it's largely music production, from what I can tell. (I think engineering might be a red herring. I think perhaps he was excited about seeing so many subjects that don't sound like school subjects. I'm not against it - he's just never shown any interest in it before, including the school engineering club that I tried to persuade him to sign up to.) Oh - and it would be one of three. Though he's thinking Art and maybe Geography or English for the other two.

Oh - and I don't think that Oxbridge is realistic - but for a bit he was talking about the Royal College of Music. Though I don't think that is realistic either quite frankly as he doesn't actually practice any of his instruments enough, unless he's playing with other people.

Sorry if you are taking the bit about not playing an instrument from my post, that was GCSE-equiv Btec so the post-16 one may be different.

If he is grade 6 in two instruments then that’s a good prep for A level. I assume he does music GCSE btw?

Not sure I would advise music and art A levels – a lot of CW there.

Yes he's doing music GCSE - he just got an 8 in the recent mocks (he's in year 10.)

I second the comment about CW load. Art CW is insanely demanding.

Dd2’s workload in music BTEC was consistently time-consuming and there was a large onus on working with others. Everyone on her course played an instrument (wide variety of them) and they were expected to put regular group performances on and evaluate regularly. She did look into music at degree level and plenty of (good) places accepted BTEC but alongside grade 6 minimum.

A level music is quite heavy academically as well as the practical these days.

Thank you - so DS would probably have Grade 8 in one instrument (plus his voice qualifications) alongside either the A Level or the BTec. Performing is one of his favourite aspects so maybe the BTec would be good....

Here is the AQA syllabus for music (not the only board but they don’t vary too much between boards):
https://www.aqa.org.uk/subjects/music/a-level/music-7272/specification/subject-content/appraising-music

With the BTEC they offer Music production or Music performance. Dd2 did the latter. Bigger FE colleges might offer both.
Here:
https://qualifications.pearson.com/en/qualifications/btec-nationals/music-performance-2018.html

Oxbridge have ~50% acceptance rate for Music so
perfectly realistic. RCM would require much higher standard for piano, don't know much about clarinet.

A levels are useful even for professional musicians - music career path is tricky, it's good to have something else under your belt, just in case.

@Ubertomusic Oxford is more of an academic course though and Art as an A level might not be what they are looking for. Music has a number of very good colleges elsewhere so there isn’t quite the competition for Oxford music places. They want dc who can write essays so do look for the right profile.

@PuffykinsMy DD did two Arts at A level but had the huge advantage of boarding so art studios were open at the weekends. Art is time consuming. Music is time consuming. If he’s a worker it’s definitely possible but he’s got to want this.

Im surprised he’s not doing music theory exams and ABRSM singing exams. Oxford want grade 7 theory if no music A level. So look closely at what universities actually want.

I don’t know what level his vocal qual is, but G8 by year 12 is probably not going to be enough for the conservatoires. Fine for BMus at uni though, just to manage expectation.0

I think you (or rather your DS!) really need to look at which Btec is offered. The music production one is perhaps more commonly available, maybe bc it is very different from music A level. There's a good deal of performance in music A level of course. So do check which one if it is not both.

Also how many students will be taking it? I ask bc DD started music A level (but then switched) and she was one of only two taking it. So when she switched she left a lone student. I was the only person taking one of my A levels and it was not a good thing. OTOH a small group of 4-5 could be great.

@titchynot sure a conservatoire was a realistic idea - op knows that really. RCM entry is performance based/audition and A levels are EE or modest BTec. So very low academic requirement but high musical ability!

Sorry - he is doing music theory exams too. I know that the conservatoires are out (unless he radically steps up practice, and that is unlikely!) and that if he does art and music then Oxbridge is more than likely out, too. He's not an academic- as in, he doesn't derive pleasure from research etc. (at least, I don't think he does - but I don't think I thought I did when I was 14, and now I write books that require quite a lot of art research and I love it.) We have an art studio at home and a kiln etc. so I am not too concerned about his not having weekend access to materials etc. because he would - and he also has music support in the community (ie church, where he is a chorister, and where the congregation includes professional musicians.) He could do voice exams - and we can look into that.

Really I just want him to be happy and find a career that satisfies him and allows him to earn enough to support himself and his children if he wants to have them in the future. He loves music - really loves it - but he loves tinkering and being with other people and chatting to them about it more, I think, than he loves analysing it (though he can do that with some ease. He has - which is extraordinary to me - an ability to hear something and be able to determine the key and the time etc, and all those things.) He also loves making stuff, hence art - in which he is also predicted a high grade.

Is music A Level considered sufficiently academic to qualify as academic rather than creative, if he did do art, music and, say, English (or Geography)? I did 4 A Levels but I don't think that's a possibility... (I was at a private school, and it was the only way my parents would allow me to study to Art History, which they didn't consider a proper subject, but which is what my career is now in. So I'm super aware that I need to let him follow his passions. But my parents, in their slightly dictatorial 'advice', protected me at the same time, and I want to be able to do the same.)

@Puffykins Yes. Music A level is academic. Many music degrees would not care about the other two! Look at the academic side of any degree and think about his strengths and how they dovetail into the degree.

DDs friend loved Manchester. He was an Oxford reject but found so much music in Manchester! Making money? That’s so hard. Teaching is one route - getting lucky is the other! DDs friend gigged a lot and met his wife. They work together on her career now. There is work for musicians but it rarely pays well so that’s why grads look at other careers.

Oh, and the options - from the local college(s) are
Level 3 Music Performance Extended Certificate
Level 3 Music Technology (Production) Foundation Diploma
A Level Music

I think A Level is the answer - as the Performance Extended Certificate is the equivalent of 3 A Levels so it would be radically cutting down his options, and I just don't think Music Production is him. I actually think the A Level maybe offers the broadest base.

@TizerorFizz thank you - I think I meant more is it sufficiently academic if he then decided not to do music, but to do, say, English at university (if that were his third A Level)? Or would he then find himself stuck? (I think I'm trying to work out if I need to try to talk him out of art so that he doesn't end up with two 'creatives').