Private or state for primary with aim to go to highly selective secondary

[Poupismum]

I need some advice as we are struggling to decide. Our aim and this is always if our kid succeeds is to go to a highly selective secondary school. Do i send him to a private one now or go with a state with tuition? As the cost is quite high for primary 30k per year now.

What is you alternative plan if the selective school isn't appropriate? Is there a good Comprehensive option, or will you be looking private?

I'd be tempted to save money for Secondary.

Both my children went to state primary and got into selective grammar schools. they have friends from both state primary schools and independent schools. In the area that I live we have a few grammar schools and lots of parents choose independent prep schools which invariably prepare children better for the entrance tests than the state primaries do (it wasn’t even mentioned at our primary) My children both had some tutoring to familiarise themselves with the tests but nothing excessive. If independent school had been an option for mine (it wasn’t) I would have rather paid for an independent secondary. Also you might find that your son isn’t suited to a selective secondary school? Impossible to tell when they are little.

If your child isn't at primary yet then you have no real idea if they would fit into the ethos of the secondary, or be academic enough to enjoy it. Academic schools aren't fun unless you're bright and can breeze it. I'd save your money for secondary, or towards a house in a better catchment.

Am i correct in assuming that a private school would prepare them for the exams with minimum tuition if needed whereas at a state school we would need a lot more tuition? Obviously all these depend on the state and private school as well.

My four all went to state primary and superselective grammars - the private school children we knew were also tutored, as well as having preparation at school - state primaries where we are (Kent) does not allow any preparation by the schools.

Nowadays, I would choose whether to send my child/ren to private school based on whether I could (very easily) afford it, and the lifestyle that increasingly goes with being at private school - not on whether they may or may not get into a grammar school. If it's not something that can be done easily, I would put the money into extra curricular activities and enrichment out of school. In any case, as a PP has said, you may not know whether it would suit them when they are so little and so if I couldn't do fee paying all through (with four we couldn't!) I would probably pay for secondary, not primary.

I think this depends on the school. Some private schools do quite a bit of preparation and some really do not, so worth asking at the schools you're considering (and also asking current Y5/6 parents there if you know any).

What kind of selective secondary are you hoping for - private or state? If it's a private school, they will take into account whether the applicant is at a private or state school when making admissions decisions, so I'm not sure attending a private prep necessarily gives you any advantage.

I think you need to discover whether your child has the ability to get into and thrive at a super selective school. You won’t know that until he’s been at school for a while.

It isn’t simply £30K per year. It’s the cost of all the extras, plus allowing for increasing fees year on year.

See how he performs in a state school before you make any definitive decisions. There are no guarantees, either way.

Where I live there is one independent school which sends 90% of its students to one of two grammar schools in our town, but for other private schools it is closer to 10-15% and the rest usually goes to private secondary. Go to the school website and check 'Leavers destinations' section, that should give you a good idea.

Where I live majority of students in grammars come from state education, but they are all tutored privately.

Don't assume an Independent would prepare them
If they are a prep school ( I'm in Dorset ) they would rather you stayed with them for year 7 and 8
Here the state ( very good ) grammar schools take them at the end of year 6.

@Jackal313 we are in west london. The school that i am considering has excellent record for preparation for the exams and leavers. As majority said obviously there is no guarantee that they will perform accordingly or can even manage to get into highly selective secondaries as its too early. I would ideally consider upper latymer for secondary. I am worried whether at a state school she would have the preparation needed for these exams. Obviously tutoring might also be necessary either way. The cost is high obviously especially with a private secondary as well so i am trying to see if its justifiable at this stage. As i assumed they will provide more structured preparation from early years. Thank you all for the input! Its very helpful

The superselective London grammars take the top 5% of ability (unlike grammars in a fully grammar country where it is 25%)

I would not base a £30k decision on a gamble as to whether your child in 6 years time is too 5% of ability, and will get through the exam on the day, and will turn out to be a child that is suited to the school.

Hope for a good state primary, use money to broaden learning and deepen experience, and maybe for exam tutoring, and save it in case you need it for secondary.

Many private schools will prepare for exams for selective private schools / common entrance.

Not the endless VR / NVR that are usually the core of state school 11+

State primaries do minimum preparation for state selective tests because they have to preserve thy myth that the tests are untutorable. But private school will not necessarily prepare kids either-and if they do it might not be the right preparation for the particular school. And remember that the super selective grammars are just that- very few kids get in. What’s your plan B?

Keep in mind that private senior schools like Latymer Upper will want to take quite a few children from state schools as well. There’s an argument that going to a state school and having a tutor could put a child in a better position than if they attend a rigorous prep, as the senior school will know how much prep they’ve had in school and factor this in when making their decisions.

In reality, you’re likely to be paying for extra tuition either way. At a private school, they are often competing with their classmates for those highly selective school places, and this pressure leads parents to pay for extra tuition on top of school fees. There won’t be the same pressure at a state school, but they will have to have some tutoring to bring them up to speed.

I have a very bright nephew at Latymer. But he would genuinely get 9s in GCSEs at any state school. You can’t get higher than a 9 and some pupils find GCSEs pretty easy. My SIL has a very active social life with all those wealthy yummy mummies, which you wouldn’t get at a state school. My nephew mixes with the right people, it’s a very wealthy school. But in the real world, are you ready for the harsh reality of life and work? It’s a personal preference.

@Vivienne1000 i am so glad that your nephew is so bright and happy! That is great to hear! As far as i understand not all people
ta latymer are wealthy and there are a lot with bursaries. For me however is not about the social life it’s about if my kid can do it and can achieve that i am prepared to support them and give them the best chance to achieve it. The rest would fall into place.

@TheNightingalesStarling i would go with a private school if the selective fails

Would it worth it to move them from state to a private school at year 3? For better preparation? Or is it too much moving for a child?

selective state or independent?

@Jackal313 thank you. I heard that tutoring should start at year 3/4 so essentially that is 2 years of heavy tutoring. I appreciate all views and thank you all

@Poupismum , dc move in and out of the state primary and prep system in London all the time. The increased cost of fees means that private secondaries will increasingly take from state primary sector as they have to fill their seats. Start in the state sector and follow your gut of when to move to private prep.

Am i correct in assuming that a private school would prepare them for the exams with minimum tuition if needed whereas at a state school we would need a lot more tuition?

plenty of private dc have tuition.

@meevee independent i dont want them to go through an exam again at 7. I asked for places at the current one that we have an offer after an assessment for year 2 and they said they dont usually have places. They do however have more at year 3. I am worries about friendships and whether they would be behind other kids if i do this. Moving them at year 3. But the savings are 90k. Sorry i am stressing so much about this as my kid is bright is outgoing very confident and i am very worried to make the wrong decision without always taking away other benefits of living life to the full due to financial constraints

I would try and relax as your dc is still
young. Also really think about the fees as it's an awful lot of money now and there are some excellent state options in London. Good luck

Do state primary and pay for tuition - we passed 11+ without it but it isn't super selective in our area and most parents obsessed with getting into the grammar had 1:1 for at least 2 years, some 4.