Haberdashers Hatchem college

[Bsur]

Hi there,

first time posting on Mumsnet, grateful for any feedback on my musings below :-)

I have a 3yo and 6.5 yr old, currently living in Beckenham near Kent House /Clock House. My son currently goes to balgowan primary school which we are very happy with, my daughter would be due to go there next yr. Whilst it’s still early days we’ve started thinking about Secondary schools and assessing our options, both locally or if we were to move and would love any thoughts.

Option one - stay where we are
-Definitely keeping an open mind but not feeling super inspired by our local options which would likely be Harris Beckenham / Harris CP or Orion.

• Personally more drawn to sound or Kingsdale (although v big!) and whilst circ 16% of kids from our nearest school got in it’s a wild card as lottery based.
• I’ve done my research into the pros and cons of all of these options (esp Harris which I know people have strong views on) so think I have a fairly good read on the sentiment and my own gut feeling but yet to see in person.

So first option would be stay where we are, hope for Kingsdale but if not would need to be happy enough with one of the other local options. Any other views on these schools very welcome if you have experience!

Option 2 - move house to get in strongest position for secondary (whilst making sure we still have good primary options as love balgowan)

• I’ve started exploring other SE London schools that potentially would be worth moving for.
• The one I keep coming back to is Haberdashers Hatchem College which has the two primary feeder schools. So if we went down that route guess we’d need to prioritise getting kids into one of the primary feeder schools OR being on doorstep of the secondary schools (which will likely rule us out price wise)

Would love any utd insight and opinions on the below….

• UTD views on the school - I know they went from outstanding to good but assume they will go back up especially as we are a few yrs off. I feel connected to the ethos of the school and the grounds look great.
• The two primary feeder schools (Haberdasher Hatchem Primary and Free School) - do they both have equal eligibility to the secondary and are they both as good? What are the pros and cons. Heard there may be more of a bias to the free school on same site (appreciate can all change in a few yrs!)
• Hatchem Conservation area feels safest for the primary feeders and within budget but perhaps more drawn to brockey way
• Any Insights on which roads would be the safest bet to either get into the secondary school or feeder (see below, assume budget will be defining thing here!)

Budget wise our current house is circ 850 so we’d prob be looking at a similar budget. Min 3 bed, ideally period property. Mindful we’d likely have to downsize space to go further in so that’s a consideration as we have a great family space on a nice road close to two stations atm.

Looked at some houses in Hatchem conservation area for circ 7/750 ( Victorian terrace) so that could be an option if we could extend. Not spent much time in New Cross area tho so would be good to hear what it’s like for families and general vibe. Being close to Nunhead / Peckham would be a plus. Then all the usual desirable things like community feel, a few local foodie places, close green space, safe etc

Brockley wise, if we were to move within catchment of haberdashers free school / secondary site the roads are more expensive and I assume tiny catchment areas.

Think more drawn to Brockley v New Cross but thinking probably priced out for what we want, as with Telegraph Hill which is clearly the case.

Would bit of a brain dump but on off chance anyone in similar position would love any views!! The key criteria for any move would be secondary schools so if we did go go down this route would just need to make sure we put ourselves in the safest position on that front (and obvs keep great primary options).

thanks so much

Hello, no advice but wondering if you are any further along in your research as I am in such a similar position!

The Free School has a very different in-take to the other primary. It is very Telegraph Hill, so many Charlie and Lola types (it's where Lauren Child lives). I have only been to the other school once, but it was more typical of a south London primary. The catchment used to be tiny, but most inner-city schools have spaces now as the birth-rate is lower and families are being priced out of ordinary homes. Habs secondary does still offer music scolarships, if you are not in catchment. Lewisham does publish data on furthest distance place offered, so you can look this up. If you are looking around Brockley, look also at the Prendergast Schools, or if you go towards Sydenham, look at Forest Hill Boys or Sydenham Girls. Both my kids went to Kingsdale and did really well there. Although it is huge, it is very good pastorally, and whilst at times seeming quite chaotic, the school always pulls it out of the bag in the end. Apply and stay on the waiting list. In both my DC's cohorts there were children joining throughout Year 7, and there are always places in year 10 when the school loses a chunk to the Brit (which only starts in year 10). Places also come up on the waiting list at Habs - I know a girl who couldn't get a place at any Southwark school for a year 8 start, but got a place at Haberdashers.

I have lived in the area all my life and DCs went to school there. Brockley and Telegraph Hill are great places to live and both Prendergast Hilly Fields (for girls) and Askes (mixed) are good schools. For years you had to live right next door to Prendergast or Askes to get a place but with falling rolls the catchment area for both has widened. Neither school actually has a fixed catchment area, it’s just on distance.

However, house prices in both areas are very high. You wouldn’t find a whole house for less than 1m. That’s not only because it’s an expensive area but because the houses on Telegraph Hill and Brockley mainly tend to be larger with 4/5 bedrooms. I can’t think of a street with 3 bedroom houses (that’s not to say there aren’t any!).

I live in the hatcham conservation area with two kids at the primary who will go to the high school. It's a lovely area to live and brilliantly located. That said it is different from say, nunhead or much of brockley etc - it's a much more socially mixed area and not purely "gentrified" which is why I love it but some people turn their nose up. The school itself is absolutely brilliant. Loads of extracurricular, great leadership, ambitious, fun, genuinely inclusive, brill senco if you have a child with any additional needs or like one of mine, anxiety. We know a lot of happy kids at the free school too which is much more white wealthy middle class but not exclusively so.

The high school had a new head 2-3 yrs ago and their most recent (Nov 24) Oftsed effectively said it would have been regraded oustanding, but it wasn't a graded inspection: "Evidence gathered during this ungraded (section 8) inspection suggests that the school's work may have improved significantly across all areas since the previous inspection."

Definitely have a look around. The catchment for our school is typically tiny (sometimes it expands as far as queens road peckham dep on siblings) but they usually have spaces later on, certainly from y3 onwards. New families have joined from Deptford Park which is in your budget, also from rotherhithe, elephant, walworth, etc.

Alternatively look at the charter east school - some more affordable housing on the modern estate near the greenway/sainsburys - and close enough to kingsdale. West Norwood/Dunraven. Or Crofton Park for prendergast schools (check tiny catchment) also is on the kingsdale bus route.

Just to add: I think Beckenham is much more leafy than hatcham/new cross! My husband wanted us to move out there at one point. In SE14 you have lovely parks and pockets of green but also the A2 which is awful - we just cross it and forget.

On the other hand, pros include: lovely cafes (corner cafe nearest us); parks especially telegraph hill park which has a farmers market, community run cafe/bar, pizza place etc, as well as Folkestone gardens with a skate park, brill cafe (Sylva) and Deptford park - both deptford and tel hill parks have free playclubs open 5/6 days a week for young families; just by Hatcham, Besson Street community gardens also runs childrens play clubs (outside) and yoga; walking distance to nunhead, nunhead cemetery, peckham and peckham rye park, brockley, deptford, greenwich, canada water which are very different but include great restaurants and bars, libraries, family swimming pool, endless clubs and activities including climbing walls and watersports etc.

I have lived in Brockley/New Cross for 64 years and never heard of Hatcham conservation area or the ‘high’ school. Is are those the new names for Telegraph Hill conservation area and Askes secondary? Apart from the two private girls schools in Blackheath and Sydenham I have never heard anyone here call a secondary a high school. Maybe I need to catch up with the new lingo? !

Hi, neighbour! Hatcham conservation area was created in 1990... it's the patch of streets around what was the Monson Primary and is now Hatcham Temple Grove Primary. Brocklehurst, Camplin, Nettleton, Leylang, Ventnor etc all the way up to Avonley on the other side of the school and down to All Saints church. I referred to it as such because the OP said she's been looking at this specific area. Anyway don't blame me... blame the council planning department, and the estate agents ;)

I call it high school because I went to two of the est.700 secondary schools in England which have "high" school in their name. Plus, lots of the kids/teachers in our primary refer to it as such.

Regardless, the high school is no longer called (actually or colloquially by students) as "aske's". They dropped the Aske's a few years ago because of his links to the slave trade. It is now officially called "Haberdashers' Hatcham College" and while lots of people still call it "habs" the kids and teachers seem to call it "hatcham college". All the comms we've had from them so far about the transition to hatcham college call it "hatcham college" without the haberdashers'.

It's a constant evolution! I've only been here 25years but so much change already (and yet much the same).