More male teachers - doesn't that mean fewer females?

[mids2019]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/apr/03/bridget-phillipson-education-secretary-more-male-teachers-adolescence

I don't think this was a considered statement as in world where women have had to fight hard for representation in professions it is is grange for a cabinet Secretary to advocate for more men in a professiion. We certainly wouldn't see the health Secretary advocate for male doctors in a profession historically dominated by men at least until the last few decades.

I don't think teachers are there primarily to be role models but educators. The sex of the teacher should make no difference only their overall ability to the job. To somehow suggest a male has more authority or respect from male pupils surely is just veiled sexism?

I don't personally agree......

Who objects to scouts? All my lefty friends have scout kids and half are scout leaders!!
why are you just making all this shit up? And where did you get the idea that children from age 6-16 get sent to spend Monday to Friday in lawyers offices or with a bunch of construction workers? I assume that’s what you think happens since you think the gender split of those industries just as important and relevant as teachers. Op, do you have kids? Do you actually know any?

It is simplistic in my view that something as complicated as toxic masculinity can be addressed by having a teacher that shaves and talks about football

No-one is saying that!

There aren’t many male role models in wider society and, most importantly, those that are relatable/accessible to children. Politicians, actors, musicians, sports people are not role models. GP, pharmacists etc are not role models - a child (if lucky) may rarely see theirs. Someone in the army is not a role model and National Service is not a way to bring up young men.
Scout leader perhaps and this brings me back to my point about the loss of youth clubs. Unfortunately, I don’t think many teenage boys would join the scouts.

Boys/children just need decent men who are a regular part/constant in their lives modelling how to be decent men. Ones who work with their colleagues, male and female, with mutual respect, can engage children, turn up to work on time, don’t swear, show consideration, humour, interest, engagement. All the qualities a good teacher should have.
They don’t need special training, just be a decent man - many children lack this in their lives.

I'm sorry, but if they "don't need training" to do this, why are they not getting this in any other setting outside of a classroom?

Who would they get it from other than their father if present and a good father??! Very few good men are consistently present in children’s lives.

As I said earlier, teenagers naturally look for role models outside their home so even one with a lovely father still needs to see good behaviour modelled elsewhere.
Ever been in a situation where you have given your teen some advice and they eye roll but as soon as someone else gives the same advice they listen?

Surely that is not hard to understand?

I think you are slightly missing my point. Many men are not "decent" which is the issue here. Many men don't see their flaws, refuse therapy and would not tolerate being told they might need to change. If we don't stand up to this and make them recognise behaviours that are insiduous and damaging (through psychology and behaviour training) we are merely putting boys in with more grown up versions of themselves.

What makes you think that these misogynist men will be queuing up to work in primary schools with majority female staff doing a 'traditionally female' role?

Well exactly, but if the "decent" ones were we wouldn't have a shortage, would we?

You can't honestly claim that every self confessed "nice guy" should be taken on face value? Maybe you haven't done internet dating in the last decade, but it's a real wild west out there in the over 30's group of men.

This is why I asked earlier why my DC’s private schools have so many great male teachers in the full range of subjects: art, music, drama, English, maths, etc?
They are out there.

Yes, private schools pay well and also are often single sex, so all girls schools have less need one might argue, although if men at home are dire they presumably also need to see these unicorns in action?

@noblegiraffe There are men in primary schools but mostly teach ks2. Of course they don’t get accused of anything! Occasionally maybe? However the pay for a DH isn’t bad in a bigger school and men have plenty of scope for promotion after around 10 years and taking responsibility. No part time working for them! They do tend to achieve better pay fairly quickly but will need to take responsibility positions.

@hadtonamechangeobviously I think the role of youth clubs is greatly overplayed. Around here it was the somewhat quiet and not overly popular dc who went. They were nice kids and were never going to be a problem to anyone. They just liked a game of table tennis.

Anyone with loads of friends and activities (eg football or music) didn’t go near them. No DC who were likely to be troublemakers were rescued! Maybe in city centres and council estates they might have mopped up a few dc but behaviour of young people was not considered to be great when we had them. Always the subject of public angst. This was because the DC who needed to go wouldn’t be seen dead in a youth club! They were definitely viewed as where losers went.

Mixed and single sex.
I hear mixed things about pay and pensions at private versus state.
Either way, there are men who want to be teachers, many of the very very good ones in my limited experience. Perhaps not an attractive prospect currently having read threads about the teaching profession.

I'm not debating there are great male teachers but I am worried we need to rely on them to also be of moral fortitude to the point all boys need to learn their code of conduct from them. The unfortunate issue is that men of all ages are being primed by society and the internet into the same thinking as our teen boys, and have been for several decades. Trying to discover which are affected and which aren't isn't an easy task but it is a risk, if we blithely assume all male teachers are not misogynistic.

Fair enough - perhaps much like scouts our way! In which case, there really isn’t much out there for children who don’t have parents that have the time/money/inclination to take them to extracurricular activities - some of whom are the ones most in need of a positive male figure.

@hadtonamechangeobviously
Yes. I know they don’t have much but plenty do turn out to be well adjusted decent people. I think how any parent deals with DSs matters. I notice how boys are “allowed to be boys” far too much. They are tolerated when they should not be. Essentially they get away with poor behaviour and attitudes because “well, they’re boys, aren’t they?” I’ve noticed my sister lower her expectations for her DS. Her DDs had higher levels of expectation. We definitely need parents to be on board with not tolerating poor behaviour from an early age.

That's the point though. Not all male teachers only talk about football. That's your take . The male teachers at my son's school were not all sporty. They played musical instruments, wrote funny songs for class assemblies, taught English as a specialism or maths. Some were definitely not sporty. Which helped the child who weren't sporty either. You have a very small notion of what men are and what male teachers bring to the table.

Thatcannotberiight

What does a man bring to the table that a woman can't?

If it is not stereotypical masculine interests then aren't you taking one men for simply being men. In other words simple 'maleness' is enough? I just feel teaching is teaching much like science is science and gender should not matter I recruitment. By all means appoint men of they are good at the job but I don't think simply being a role model should influence recruitment decisions.

Probably no diffident to have more black and Asian teachers. Or similar in other professions. Otherwise we can just continue having white men in every role.
Diversity is important for many reasons.

*different

(and women only in caring professions)

The issue is society has taught men not to listen to anyone other than men... I am not convinced adding more men to this equation will actually help unless they are properly trained in some way.

Diversity is important for many reasons.

This.
Representation is important and having a range of role models is valuable.

My male boss is brilliant, I've learned loads from him but the person who has really inspired me is a woman from the same background as me who has succeeded in her field. She is a role model to me because her journey resonates with mine.

I am not convinced adding more men to this equation will actually help unless they are properly trained in some way.

They'll be trained as teachers.....

That would be nice, but as we discussed men aren't flocking to be teachers. Maybe if we trained them to also help misguided youth out of misogyny men would get their "saviour complex" hat on and apply for the jobs. Sadly a large chunk of men are simply not community minded, which is a huge part of the battle.

Society also teaches women that they're worthless if they're not in a relationship. Thankfully many men and women are wise enough to recognise these unhealthy social stereotypes and strong enough to stand up against them.