More male teachers - doesn't that mean fewer females?

[mids2019]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/apr/03/bridget-phillipson-education-secretary-more-male-teachers-adolescence

I don't think this was a considered statement as in world where women have had to fight hard for representation in professions it is is grange for a cabinet Secretary to advocate for more men in a professiion. We certainly wouldn't see the health Secretary advocate for male doctors in a profession historically dominated by men at least until the last few decades.

I don't think teachers are there primarily to be role models but educators. The sex of the teacher should make no difference only their overall ability to the job. To somehow suggest a male has more authority or respect from male pupils surely is just veiled sexism?

I don't personally agree......

I agree we need more male teachers.

I don't know how many families have no father figure but I bet it's more than those with no mother.

Boys and girls both need male role models, and teachers do more than just provide knowledge; they help children understand and navigate the world. If there are no men in their schooling at a young age, they get a skewed view of it.

Encouraging good men to go into teaching, especially very young kids, is hard. It's unusual to find male teachers in primary school - I wonder if they are wary of seeming suspicious; or maybe it's just seen as low status??

And adolescent boys and teens NEED men to guide them. They are not yet adult, more prone to risky behaviour and getting into dangerous situations.

In other cultures they'd be off hunting and learning from them.

There's no shortage in universities - higher status/pay with a young adult audience?

So are girls getting something boys aren't? Role models, examples of how to be?

Are boys less likely to listen to women because of the toxicity they've been exposed to?

Its a circle - if we had more men in teaching from the earliest years, more boys would see that and realise teaching is something men do, more would go into it, so there'd be more in the profession for the next generation of boys.

How do we ensure that any teachers are off good quality? I'm a retired teacher and I came across plenty of poor females teachers, too. Why the assumption that men are more likely to be so?

Why? Do men need more money than women?

You’re assuming that the type of kids without a male role model at home are going to be going to organised sport.

School literally might be their only place where they have the potential to have a positive male role model

The world is pretty much run by men and there are absolutely loads of excellent role models. More make teachers won’t necessarily mean great role models for boys. If they are, as upthread, Mr Funguyteacher they absolutely won’t be a good role model.

Personally I think we need more men calling out the terrible men that seem to be the boys choice of role models - footballers for example, call out the bad ones and highlight the good ones. Men need to step up here, are there forums of normal everyday blokes/dads where they are expressing worry and asking themselves what they can do?

Again just tinkering, hand wringing but nobody doing much including the people that need to ie men.

I don't think men would 'sort it out' - it's an unconscious societal problem due to years of ingrained sexism and mysogeny (from both men and women). Men would just do the job, eventually schools would fail /collapse. The government would see they need to do more and would because they don't want the ratings of schools to plummet on their clock. The amount of extra ridiculousness that happens prior to an Ofsted inspection, for example, to make sure the school passes wouldn't happen to the same degree for one. Not that Ofsted is an accurate measure, but it's the one the government use. Maybe more schools would fail (not because they are poor schools but because Ofsted is a joke) and the government might think, hmm, this looks bad for us, let's sort it out.
At the moment, the government (and general public) don't realise how bad the situation is because women are breaking themselves to make sure schools can just about stay afloat.
It's the same in other typically female professions such as nursing, care work, nursery and childcare, even hospitality.
The men I worked with seem bewildered when they found out that most female teachers in the school bought their own supplies, worked til 10pm and all weekend, had no hobbies because they had no time, felt immense guilt over not being able to do the Easter revision club (for free) as they had their own children to care for, literally stayed up the entire night before an Ofsted inspection making new lessons, re-doing the whole classroom display and making sure books were perfect.

Say for example they forced an equal split of male female teachers across the board.

I want to know what the statistics say about child sexual abuse in schools, and how much they will expect it to increase. Because it obviously will. Girls are more likely to be sexually abused than boys, so this is abuse that will be taken on by girls so the boys can benefit from "non toxic masculinity".

I'd also like to know how the gender bias of men will affect girls in STEM lessons.

To me, this is nothing like increasing female or minority representation in other fields as there is no proven negative outcome for their patients/clients. More men guarantees more CSA in schools.

Brilliant plan Bridget. Here's my suggestions for attracting more men into teaching:

• Increase the levels of personal autonomy, prestige and respect that teachers enjoy - the massive shift in gender balance in the profession over the last century correlates stromgly with making conditions for teachers which a lot of people who have healthy self-respect tend to refuse to tolerate, but are better tolerated by a doormat people-pleaser personality who is willing to sacrifice their own wellbeing for the benefit of others, so naturally the sex that gets conditioned by society to fulfil that kind of role get drawn more strongly at the moment.
• As part of that, pay teachers a decent wage and employ enough of them that they aren't having to do a 50hr week, what with all the paperwork, marking and planning.
• Fund special schools, and additional resources for SEN, and CAMHS enough so that teachers can do their actual jobs rather than spending so much time trying to deal with disruptive behaviour from pupils who are acting out due to crisis levels of unmet needs.

In general, employment roles which get a lot of respect, prestige and autonomy tend to get dominated by men and employment roles which tend to be give the employees the shitty end of the stick and exploit them as much as possible, tend to get mostly filled by women. It's the ongoing effect of patriarchy and misogyny.

How do schools ensure teachers are good quality now? It doesn't seem like she's suggesting picking men up off the street and handing them teaching jobs.

There have been repeated threads on here from parents expressing "concern" about the motives of any man who wants to teach small children or work in a nursery/early years, because quite clearly the only reason any man would want to work with kids is because he's a "peado".

That attitude of teaching being something women do, men don't, and the men that want to do it are weird won't go away quickly. It's a generation thing, 50 years ago a male nurse would have been considered similarly odd and weird, it's going to take a long time to change things around.

For balance - this is not at all my experience of male teachers I've worked with.

We can't.

Because often it's the choice between a shit teacher and no teacher.

Why don't we focus on forcing men to behave in normal society so boys can see them as role models? Force child support, give proper mental health care, actual support to stay out of the prison system. An internet campaign designed to combat the Andrew Tates of the world.

There might be loads but but boys are not exposed to them. They don't 'choose' their role models from every possible one - how could they pick a role model they don't even know exists? They choose from what they see and are exposed to in their life. Many of the types of role models needed are not spending time with children in education. And a visit once a year wouldn't cut it.

It's unusual to find male teachers in primary school - I wonder if they are wary of seeming suspicious; or maybe it's just seen as low status??

My late husband was a primary teacher. When he qualified it was not unusual for men to be in primary teaching, and indeed or own children (born in the 80s) had male teachers at primary school.

But as time went on, being a male teacher of seven year olds meant that he had to be far more careful than I needed to be. He wasn't able to comfort distressed children like I could. He had to have strategies for when he found himself alone in the classroom with a child, that I didn't need to factor in.

The world is much more suspicious of men and young children, now. You see it on Mumsnet every day. So I can understand men not wanting to be viewed with suspicion by parents etc when just doing their job.

What difference does height make? None. What a strange comment.

It's these kind of comments that are the problem. Women's fear of men doesn't make them stupid. It's you who is ignoring that something like 98%of sexual assault is by men.

It's ignorance or deliberately ignoring statistics, that doesn't make you clever. Women are afraid of men because they have dealt with men.

I want to know what the statistics say about child sexual abuse in schools, and how much they will expect it to increase. Because it obviously will.

And there we go. Someone already proving my point.

Not all men are "peados". But almost all "peados" are men.

@User415373 You are describing an awful school. Making new lessons before Ofsted? Why? Were they crap in the first place? Maybe more men would stop this sort of nonsense?

But it's true. It isn't fear mongering it's accurate. Ignoring that doesn't change things. Ignoring women telling you they've suffered under males as women as children doesn't change that.

So all men should be banned from working in primary schools or nurseries then?

I can totally see why men don't even consider teaching younger kids when these attitudes are so alive and kicking.

Also, women shouldn’t be breaking themselves/staying up literally all night. If teachers stopped doing all these things and just did the job, the ridiculous demands would stop. I eventually voted with my feet and left the profession.

Actually, please. Tell me honestly that if a schools went from whatever the current numbers are now to 50% male would you be surprised to see an uptick in reported sexual abuse? Or would you genuinely expect it to be unchanged. Be honest now. Would it stay exactly th same?

Yes completely fair point on teacher quality regardless of gender, good training and high retention is needed. But I'm not saying men are less likely to be good teachers, I'm saying they're more likely to be misogynistic. So specifically regarding misogyny and recruiting male role models as teachers to combat it, is likely to be an ineffective policy at best