Honest advice

[TiredAndTeasy23]

Trying to reach out for some honest support and advice from level headed strangers.
Long & short of it is my husband has been dismissed from his teaching role due to stopping two teenage boys fighting. He saw them in a headlock together and considering they are older and physically bigger boys who can cause damage, he shouted and then pulled one lad by the loop of his backpack (which he was wearing) and moved him into a classroom nearby and separated them. This followed with a suspension and ended in dismissal. My husband has been distraught over this. He’s usually a happy and positive guy but he is a shadow of a man I once knew. He has a union who was honestly just as confused and when he saw the cctv his response to my husband was “well I expected a lot worse! You have control the entire time and no harm came to either boy”. He applied and the school stayed strong and said it’s gross misconduct. He, with the union rep are now gearing up for a tribunal but they are aware this could take months if not over a year with no guarantee. My husband took a mundane job which sees him working all day, well into the evenings and weekends meaning he isn’t seeing our young children.

I guess I’m asking for unbiased advice on whether that’s it. Teaching career well and truly over or with totally transparency and honesty, could he get another teaching job or is it a waste of everyone’s time to even apply.

im so angry this has happened to him. If he had done something awful or unthinkable it would be easier to comprehend but he’s a great teacher, has blinding references (many from that same school!) but he just doesn’t seem like he will be given another chance again.

All thoughts welcome.
Thanks

That sounds awful, your poor husband. No advice but I really hope he gets it sorted.

I'm a secondary assistant head and DSL. I deal with all the use of reasonable force in my (rough) secondary school. There are lots in my school.

My bottom line is there will be more to it than this: He saw them in a headlock together and considering they are older and physically bigger boys who can cause damage, he shouted and then pulled one lad by the loop of his backpack (which he was wearing) and moved him into a classroom nearby and separated them.

There is a clear, dfe lead process for use of reasonable for in schools and the essentials of this is an acknowledgement that school staff sometimes have to use reasonable force snd they won't be criminalised or victimised for doing it to maintain safety and proportional.

So, I have no doubt in my mind that there is more to it.

The least problematic outcome is that he didn't complete the necessary paperwork after the use of force. The paperwork covers a teachers back.

If a student made an allegation, he may be suspended for an investigation. But you mentioned he's been dismissed which is much more serious.

We're police involved? If he caused an injury to a student they would be.

Understandable that you’d ask if there was more to it but it would be silly for me to lie and expect advice for something I’m not honest about.

that is 100% what happened. The Lado left it to the school to deal with so they wernt urgently concerned as such. The union is helping fight it as he is a ECT/NQT and had no specific training in handling conflict.
The police are not involved and have never been involved. Afterwards, he went to his SLT who didn’t tell him to report so he went back to teaching his class but was pulled out at the end of the day and suspended.
The dismissal is “manhandling of a student” but the cctv shows this as factual due to actually removing a student. He never denied the claim but tried to fight his reasoning and another member of staff who witnessed it stated “he had control at all times” the same witness who admitted there was “pressure on me to not be involved with the appeal”.

I am being totally honest with the facts. I have read every report and would be there first to say “well you made a bad call, learn and move on” but this isn’t the case here. Just can’t get sense of how someone can fight against something this wrong

To add to the understanding of something not being quite right. It crossed my mind that he may try to protect me from all details but I’ve read every letter and email and appeal communication myself to double check and it’s very clear on the facts. Which is why I’ve turned to random strangers for advice and support. It is baffling to the union, to us and most importantly my husband. We can’t go down without a fight on this. It just seems so unfair

How is his teaching? Maybe they are using this incident as a way of getting him out of the school. If everything is as you say and the union support him (as they should if it is as you describe) he should push this via the tribunal process. It must be incredibly stressful time for him and the whole family.

The dismissal is “manhandling of a student”

Use of reasonable force has to be the minimum amount of force required. So in the description you give, when separating the boys it would be possible to first use attempts to do this positively and without contact? Sometimes you can't, but if this was possible and he didn't try (just went straight to use if force), thus would be gross misconduct.

You mention taking the boy to a nearby classroom. If this was forcibly, not just the boy walking to another room, this is likely an issue too.

In terms of teaching elsewhere, unless he's has a teaching ban then yes he can. There are schools out there that very significantly struggle to recruit staff and frankly, will take anyone. I'd suggest he tries these types of schools in order to get a better reference when he subsequently moves on.

He'd need to be honest when applying though, explain the reason for leaving, perhaps show that he's done some professional development in this area, to show he's reflective and open to learning and development. The whole attitude here of 'we don't understand what this issue is' won't help.

the said classroom was behind my husband when he intervened. So he basically rotated the child 180 degrees.
He had shouted for them to stop but they carried on. It’s going to be about those little things for the tribunal to decide I guess.

when you say teaching ban? This is what we are confused with. The union have been whishy washy with this too. No where does it say he is being reported or banned from teaching. How would we look into this? Would he receive something from the LADO?
should he have been told there is a ban? I think this is what he held him back in applying for other roles again. It’s been 12 months of hell and just not knowing everything.

He is looking at any schools now as you say to just get his feet back in. He has a specialised subject which is high in demand around us so hoping that will bring some positivity along with glowing references from his ECT, previous head of facility etc.

Is the tribunal you mention with the teaching standards agency? If so, that's what will decide if he is able to teach or not. If he is currently not able to teach, he would know.

www.gov.uk/government/collections/teacher-misconduct

Unsure on that. He’s just gone through the appeals process and tribunal is the next step which could be 18+ months to wait apparently. So would it seem he has to wait until that happens before applying for other jobs? What if he decided not to go through a tribunal is that also a clear no? He wants to fight it as it seems a harsh outcome but it’s just the mental aspect of going through it.
appreciate your advice.

He needs to speak to his union. And/or a solicitor.

My reading of this is that the tribunal he's talking about is the TRA. If so, that is not for him to decide to go ahead with or not. Its not an appeal. The TRA decide if individuals are restricted from teaching, or not.

He needs clarity from his union rep.

The tribunal is an employment tribunal which his union has said he should go forward with. Is that the same thing? I’m not from a teaching background so don’t have all of the knowledge.

Had the school expressed any concerns about either his interaction with students, or the quality of his teaching, prior to the incident ?

Yes this was my thought too

no concerns. Had great reports from his ect mentor, head of facility put in her report that he was “one of best members of staff and he goes above and beyond for every student”. It’s a cliquey school in regards to staff, if you go against their idea then it’s well known. My son goes to that school and he has so many students asking him where he is and it’s tough for him. We’ve not disclosed what’s happened really. I am aware that people maybe don’t give context to save face but this is genuinely the whole situation, he’s had nothing but good feedback but has clashed with some staff. For example he backed a girl with a horrendous home life. The poor girl has the most vile parents who openly chose to not love her and the school wanted to expel her for bad behaviour and my husband said they have failed her and will continue to do so if they ship her off without putting everything they can into keeping her. That ruffled feathers for sure. Insulting maybe for those who worked with her but he is the type who isn’t scared to speak up but apart from that nothing bad has ever happened. This is why we are so frustrated. We genuinely thought he would be fine like they can’t sack you over stopping a fight, we even carried on with our house purchase but then he gets the dismissal letter and that was that.

Posted this in your other thread

The issue is that the findings of these hearings only have to be based on if those on the hearing panel feel that there is a problem.
It sounds to me like this was used to force your husband out of the school.
It is becoming far to common.
I assume that he has had his appeal and that this has already gone to LADO and the police who have not got involved/dismissed it.
If so the information will be sent to the DBS and the TRA who will 'investigate' and decide whether they need to do anything further.
If they decided that no further action is to be taken then your husband should be able to teach but it will be dependant on whether he will be able to get a school to employ him and the references from his current school.
As for continuing fighting and taking this to a tribunal, I would suggest that if he has the mental; capacity to fight this that far then he should do so.

In my school all staff have training done via Team Teach. It shows you how to move students in a way that does not harm them. Pulling them seems to be the issue here.

And here is the problem sooner or later teachers will not intervene due to the potential consequences.
If reading what you said is the full truth fight them all the way go for compensation and go to a school that appreciates him. Good luck hope all goes well