trilingual kids dilemmas

[multilingualmum]

dilemma is this My kids have started to reply to me in English when I talk to them in my language. We live in the UK, they are 10 and 11 yr old.
My kids already have a lot of afterschool activities. They also go to a French Saturday school for bilingual kids, which they find boring. it's 2.5 hrs and there is some playtime, but also French love dictations and the style is a bit too traditional which is a massive shame. They follow a curriculum for bilingual kids, and not enough play based learning. Their dad speaks to them in French, but just not enough, so I think the school is getting a bit complicated for them. I can't help with homework etc. as I don't speak French and I speak to them in my own language, so they can speak three!
They don't really want to cancel any of the other activities, they do different sports, arts, swim etc. between them, something almost every day of the week. It works as otherwise they would be stuck at home when with their dad, we are divorced and he is a bit disengaged parent, but I digress...
Anyways I want them to speak my language well, but there are limited opportunities. All the other kids of people from my country also speak English and kids would just automatically speak English to each other, it is just easier. I'm also not close with my family, so don't have a lot of opportunities for them to speak. We go to my country maybe once a year, but it's not a break for me, so I'm tired of doing this. I could send them to my language Sunday school, but this would be way too much I feel. I could cancel french school and send them to my language school instead. one child is more keen than the other.
Or I could just accept I failed at bringing them up truly trilingual and not send them to any language schools as they don't want to go and just let them speak to me in English, this would make me very sad. We mix with a lot of other parents so even when together there is a lot of English language going on on playdates etc. So even when with me, using my language is limited.
I feel it is one of those things that they would be grateful for in the future...
Also if they don't go to any language schools, I'm not getting any break.
But at the same time those schools are expensive so could use the money to do something fun instead of having battles to get them ready on the weekend.
They are not just schools, but also learning about their roots, making friendships, respect for their parents cultures, meeting people in similar situations etc. etc. What would people do???
I think it's one of those things that the kids might resent in the future, if you stop, they might say io gave up too easily, if I don't they might say they were forced to do something they disliked....
and yes i spoke to the dad to get him more involved (he does bare minimum).

dilemma in summary:

1. no language school at all, accept defeat
2. two language schools Sat and Sun
3. change language school from French to my language
4. I suppose another option would be to increase reading to them and teaching them more, but it's difficult as they are not interested, also travel more to my country, but that's also a bit hard, watch films in my language etc., they are loosing interest

Can you designate certain times when all three of you only speak in your language? Maybe meal times? Or another time when you’re together for a bit of time? And then other times continue to only speak to them in your language, but they can reply in English if they want. They should keep up a reasonable amount of fluency that way.

With the French, that is more of a struggle as you can’t really control how much their dad encourages them to speak it. I’m not sure the French school is really worth it if they’re not actually using it much at home and as you said it may be getting too difficult for them now.

thank you, that's a good idea about having a designated time, if i bribe them with something, they will probably agree!:)
yeah you are right about French, I have to accept that I can't facilitate that part.

I agree about choosing a specific time like meal times to speak just your language. I'd imagine at 10 and 11 they were pretty fluent and I'd drop the idea of any language school to be honest. It's more likely to put them off French and your language if you insist on it.

Focus on your language. It's not your responsibility to maintain the French and if their father isn't bothered then that's his failing not yours.

I sympathise, OP.

I would let their DH deal with the French.

Is their level in your language good enough for you to watch films together? Even if they're reluctant to speak it they'll still be getting good exposure to the language and culture. Maybe make it a fun tradition.
Norwegian night (or whatever) when you cook a recipe from your country and watch a film. Introduce them to popular singers?

i love these ideas!!! i don't know why I don't do more of this. I really need to get into it more. i think cooking food from my country takes ages, but it definitely can be done!! thanks you, that is really inspiring me

French films too, or series. Try Lupin on Netflix if you haven't already seen it.

one thing about french school is that it's giving me a tiny break and it's one of the little things ex pays for 🙄but i still have to take them as he is never available on saturdays, and have to speak to french teachers etc. I get the emails in French, half of the time I don't know what's happening, don't understand the parents around me, have to ask for help... I forward the emails to him, but then he rarely does anything with it. So if they joined my language school, I'd still have a tiny break and would probably makes so,me links for myself with people from my country of origin, which could be nice. But the kids will probably still hate it. it's a shame it's not more play based, both language schools want to teach them grammar etc., almost as if the kids would be ok if went to leave in that country, that is not realistic for most kids, I know that other parents from those schools agree with me.

That sounds very difficult and I am rubbish at languages and have no real insight but if you are in UK it's very likely they can do French GCSE at school. Sounds like they are heading off to secondary soon.- they won't be fluent but suspect they should get decent grades with the headstart you've given them. And you can make yours the 'fun' quirky heritage language. (They can get a bonus GCSE in that if they want too)

yes, that is something I'm trying to make them realise, the advantages it gives them long term as well for their careers. You are right, that when it comes to it, they speak it well, when have to. They just prefer to speak English and then have the chick to correct my English when we are in groups!
I was hoping though that they would also feel confident writing in those languages, reading books in them and have more enthusiasm for it. I think one of the problem is, that their English school gives them a lot of homework, all the other activities, it's hard to fit everything in and by Saturday they've had enough

I've had several friends whose children have been very reluctant to use their language at this age but one is now studying it at university and the others are very appreciative. Another friend is very resentful that she was brought up not speaking the language of one of her parents. I'd be very reluctant to give up on the amazing opportunities they have unless there is no alternative. My cousin's trilingual child has now studied in three different countries (and languages) at various times. However, it does sound like the French school is not ideal; are there any alternatives - there are lots of more informal language groups in my area? Can Dad be persuaded to put more effort in? Are there cousins who could be video called?

So I’m British, living in France, working in an international school with many bilingual and trilingual students.

becoming fluent in a language comes down to exposure. ATM your kids are massively exposed to English, a bit exposed to French and you don’t say what your language is or how they access it other than you.

i don’t think it’s your job to expose your kids to French. If their father can’t be arsed then tough. Does he speak to them in French? Does he take them to France to spend time with their French family? If not, you can’t force it.

what is your language? the usual ways that I see friends here increasing exposure to the minority langage are:

spending time with family in the other country. this is crucial, as it exposes children to native speakers in a natural environment. Even better if the family don’t speak English, then they are forced to speak the other language. In French culture your kids would have been spending summers in France with grandparents. I have British friends who traveled back to the uk every summer - sacrificing more fun holiday time - to spend time with family and expose their children to the language. Do you take then to visit your family? Does your family visit?

playgroups etc, not schools. I know your kids are too old for playgroups really but have they got friends who speak your language? Do you? Any social milieu where they are regularly exposed to your language in a fun situation? We used to go to English playgroups when they were babies and made loads of friends, some of whom my 17yr old still speaks English with today despite then also being fluent French speakers. It’s completely different to a school, idk any kid that wants to go to school on the weekend.

Films, books, cooking, etc - it all sounds good but it’s really hard, especially with tweens and teens. Keep speaking your language to them even if they answer in English. Feedback from friends suggests it’s counter productive to compel them to speak your language, they may just push back even harder as they get older. It will still be going in even if they don’t respond all the time. The exposure is the important thing.

tbh the only way for DC to become bilingual IME is for you only to speak to them in that language and for them to speak to you only in it. I knew a lad who was Italian; he would speak excellent English to his football team, and then turn to his family and speak in fluent Italian – bc that was all they spoke at home. He was about 7 or 8 at the time.

Your DC, as this lad did, will get English exposure at school and in their social circle in general.

I agree with others, the French aspect is outside your control and if their dad is not interested (I infer they live with you?) then the "bilingual in French" ship has sailed. Still though, the knowledge they have will stand them in good stead for French at secondary school. Make sure, if you can, that that will be an option (most secondary schools IME offer French but not all).

If they don't enjoy the French school it might be wise to drop it – you say it gives you a break but there might be something else they could do that they would enjoy?

As far as your language goes, I suspect it is a bit late now to have any significant impact if they are not already fluent. But some ideas here to encourage speaking it might be fun anyway.

thanks for replies
So normally we go once a year to my country, I get a bit fed up with this, difficult relationships with family members, no cousins for the kids, I still have to run around the kids, cook etc. and it's still mostly me talking with them, so not that much changes. So 'spending time with family' is not an easy or enjoyable task. I would love to take them travelling there, going to theatre, visit different places, but that requires more money than staying with family where those things are limited.
They have some cousins, but they also live in the UK so speak English with each other.
I have some friends from my country, but all kids speak also English with each other. They have a babysitter who speaks my language, but they usually want to watch youtube when she is here... in English 🙄And she lets them.
Father is a from a french colony in Africa, they went once with him, which was great for their French, but he now decided that he wants a break by himself next time. They have some cousins there, who they could video call, but kids are honestly not great with face time, it just doesn't work well, they don;t seem to know how to make a conversation and start going on other apps etc. Their dad does speak to them in French. Just not enough, he is a very quiet person anyway.
I want to say they are fluent in both languages, they understand everything, just don't talk much, choose to speak English, don't want to write or read in it.
@rickyrickygrimes i think in your situation, I can imagine speaking English would be seen as much more cool, it's the language of films and youtube etc. My language is seen by kids as language of old people I think 😂Also it is a much more difficult language than English.
Thank you everyone for very useful suggestions, I'm ordering some dvds and will save some money for a trip to my country that is a bit more enjoyable for us all.

You could hire people in the area to speak the chosen language with your dc and play games with them in the language. We do this with our dc, as they are fluent in French, but we don't actually speak this language ourselves (the parents). Therefore, in order for them to keep the language and progress, we hire French speakers to come play with them in French, or sit and having conversations (I write 10 questions for them to ask so I get a good variety in). The children all speak only in French during this time. The youngest, we had to bribe with chocolates at first to speak French, but now she does it.

Also, forgot to mention, I tell the youngest the sitter does not understand English so to speak French only. I am also always around to listen and if I hear a word of English, I quickly intervene and say French only. It has gone really well. If you tell the older children this and explain the situation to the nanny (to pretend she does not understand English), this will encourage them to speak the language more. Also, shut off the wifi so no youtube, screen or tv (hide the ipads, phones etc during this time if needed). We don't need to do this, but I saw your above comment about them wanting to watch youtube in english.