Maths career ideas and importance of taking triple science

[BlackoutBlind]

My ds is currently age 13, in year 8. No idea what he wants to do career wise yet but he’s very bright, particularly at maths.

I want to help him explore possible maths based careers, but don’t know where to start. I particularly want to help him decide in the short term whether he really ought to take triple science as a gcse option. He doesn’t love science the way he loves maths but I feel like only taking double might limit future options as lots of maths based careers might also need a science background. But maybe I’m wrong!

My husband and I were always told by our parents to choose the subjects we enjoy the most. This led me to an English degree which I loved but I came out with no particular career path and have ended up in local government which has been great for fitting around raising children but rubbish in terms of earnings.

My husband chose design which he loves so it’s fulfilling in that respect but we are miles behind our peers now in terms of earnings.

I will be trying to help my children aim for jobs they will like of course but I want them to be savvier about financial prospects than we were.

I did natural sciences (physics) at Cambridge, followed by a PhD in physics. I did double science (the school did offer triple science but stressed it wasn't vital to do it)

Mind you my GCSES were about 20 years ago so it might have changed!

Double does not restrict any choices at A level or beyond.

Not every school offers triple & it would be really unfair for that to close doors to children.

Thanks. To take triple science at ds’s school uses up one of their two GCSE free choices (to pick it would mean sacrificing something else he likes e.g. music, art, PE, computer science, a tech subject).

The school suggest taking an a-level science is much harder if only double is taken at gcse and other students who have taken triple will have a much deeper knowledge already.

The students who have taken triple will have a deeper knowledge. It gives them a bit of a boost for the first couple of months of a level, not much more.

Jobs:

www.prospects.ac.uk/careers-advice/what-can-i-do-with-my-degree/mathematics

I feel your pain. We’re having the same conversations in our house. We’re not sure if triple science will be too much science each week when they like science but don’t love it.

It’s perfectly possible to take A level science with double. There will be some extra content to cover for someone who has taken double and that is perhaps more of an issue if most of the sixth form cohort has done triple. But should be ok if he is happy to do that, say over the summer after GCSE.

Does he want to take science A levels tho? If he would rather take GCSE PE or music then would that be preferred at A levels?

Maths and FM A levels will lead well to a maths degree, no extra science needed. I wouldn’t advise eg Chem A level unless student really likes the subject.

Definitely triple science. Regarded as better by selective 6th form colleges and universities. Also, the more academically able students will doing triple for support/competition. Computer Science useful as an option too if he enjoys that.

Regarded as better by selective 6th form colleges and universities.

Do you have evidence for this @Marylou2 ?I have never heard this. Specifically thinking about universities. I know plenty of dc who did double and got offers from good unis for science - based on their science A levels and PGs there tbh.

I agree to some extent that more able students may take triple tho. That might be worth thinking about.

I'd look into careers and work back from there. For example, if he wants to do an actuarial apprenticeship (great choice for the particularly mathsy who don't want to go to uni) it wouldn't matter but he would need an a or a* in a level maths.

That’s definitely a good point about other able students (those he’s currently with now in top set year 8 science) potentially all taking triple and that he won’t be with those peers if he only takes double. I hadn’t considered that.

Surely he’s got plenty of time yet to decide what he enjoys. I would even think about that for another year, until he has to choose options. My DD hated science in year 8 but has done triple and will be doing two A levels in science subjects. A year or more of extra study can change things a lot. Wait to see how he does in all subjects and what he enjoys. As you say, he would have to miss out on another subject if he chose triple science, which he may or may not want to do.

You can absolutely do a level sciences with double science gcse. I think they just miss out a few topics, to give more time to the others?

But your experience of that gcse may depend on how your school manages the sciences. If it only does double science then it’s all fine. But if the more able students, who may well be the ones who most like science, nearly all do triple science, then the double science classes may have the kids who are more annoyed to be there, or who aren’t trying as hard. I do get that this is not always going to be the case, but it is nicer at gcse to be in a class with other kids who really like the subject.

Yes, and remember that science is a lot more lessons per week to be in with the messers about (if that’s who take double) than 2-3 lessons a week of most option subjects. I presume 8-9-10 per week? Well, fewer obvs if you take double in this scenario, but still I suppose 6-7 a week.

Triple science is not deeper - they just cover more topics. There’s more time so it’s broader but they don’t go into more depth. I interrogated my friend who’s a head of science because we were unsure about whether to tolerate the one option that you get with triple science, when my son has two additional GCSEs he wants to do. A good school will make sure they catch up on what they’ve missed at the start of sixth form, if he goes for science A Levels. So assuming he’s at a good school, I’d let him choose what he wants to do.

For what it’s worth, my school only did dual science and I got sciences and maths at A Level, and then did a science degree. I didn’t even know triple science existed at GCSE until my kids got the opportunity to do it!

I do agree you may get more engaged kids doing triple science though.

If he doesn't love science then let him choose what he does like alongside double science, unless he feels strongly he would like to do science A levels. There are other subjects such as computer science or at A level economics which could lead to careers in data analysis or financial services. I subscribe to do what they love as they will have job options, even in 10 years time, that don't exist today.

Advantages of triple science for the less enthused scientist are that they tend (school dependent) to be full of the more engaged kids- that can extend to a higher set double as well- and that makes for a generally more pleasant learning environment. It may be in his school that isn’t a consideration.

Because triple science is 3 separate sciences it means that you can excel in one science subject (or even choose different tiers for different subjects if need be) eg if he turns out to be particularly good at physics for example. Double is essentially an average of all 3 sciences.

Disadvantage is that it is a big chunk of the time table of you aren’t keen.

My DD did do triple but hasn’t taken science a levels and has offers for maths based on her maths A levels and and 2 non maths subjects.

Dd1 did combined (got two 9s) and is now doing A-Levels in Chemistry and Biology. She felt she needed to a bit of catching up but she’s doing absolutely fine now. Her school only offers combined.

Do sixth forms and/or universities view doing double science differently depending on whether the secondary offers triple science at GCSE? E.g., do they view taking triple science when it is available as a demonstration of stronger interest in STEM? And not taking triple science when it is available as a different signal?

At my dd’s school triple science is squeezed into the space of double science. But the top set in y8 and y9 do more experimental work, because they move fast and spend less time explaining the basics.

If your some likes maths, then comp sci is a valid alternative to a third science.

A levels in maths, further maths, physics and comp sci would be entirely appropriate for many stem degrees!

Finance/business studies/actuarial sciences have a high stem content and a good degree can lead to a lucrative career.

Also finance pathways can be pursued without a degree - look into the large accountancy firms apprenticeships. A good salary and no debt could be very tempting! Although they are highly competitive nowadays, for obvious reasons.

Universities can be like this about further maths a level - a very small handful of universities will say “we expect you to have done further maths a level if it’s available at your sixth form” depending on what is being applied for.

But I’d have thought universities would see the choice of a level subjects as a better indicator of interest in sciences than gcse options. And the grades in GCSEs more important than whether it was double or triple science. Sixth forms would have their entrance criteria and as has been said they shouldn’t discriminate against double sciences.

I think it really depends upon the school and the teaching approach. My DD did combined science as she liked science but didn't want to drop other subjects. We found that many engaged students did the same - she was in top sets and they really pushed them to exceed. She's now doing Chemistry, Biology, Maths A Levels at a very competitive sixth form college who said there was no disadvantage in her having done double science at gcse. There are a couple of topics where kids who have done triple have more basic knowledge but she's caught up within a week or so...

When I analysed this when DS was starting GCSEs - in a school which only did double, to allow 5 true option blocks - I found the following:

• A level science results for schools that only do double and schools that have triple as an option are very similar if the schools are matched in terms of socio-economic and intake ability.
• Student who have done double and transfer to a ‘triple for able students’ school at 6th form are slightly disadvantaged relative to those who either did triple or stay at their double-only schools (ie students are slightly disadvantaged by the ‘starting point assumption’ of their A level teachers.
• Even very high status universities for very selective science courses don’t care about double / triple, but they do care about results. So 9/8 at double is better than 7/8/8 in triple. This is a more pressing issue where triple is done in the same timetable slots as double - doing lots, less well, is regarded less favourably than doing less, excellently.
• While GCSEs were revamped for the 9-1 qualifications, A level syllabi have remained quite stable. ‘Modern’ double has hugely more content than ‘old’ double, and the new double therefore has far less gap in preparation for A levels. Dd’s Physics teacher, for example, described it as ‘one topic, taught in Y13 so everyone has forgotten it and we teach it again from scratch’.

As I say, this was a few years ago but I don’t think the overall picture has changed much. The argument about peer group if able students choose triple is definitely a one to be considered BUT the loss of an option is also a significant disbenefit.

Jobs to consider- actuary or engineering.

If they like science I would lean toward a triple science purely because the students doing it are more likely to be engaged in learning and less disruptive. I find the top set behaviour contrasts quite sharply even with set two behaviour. (Based on the descriptions of two children in the same year at the same school)

But it also depends what options he is choosing between and weighing that up