Help! Performing Arts Education

[Whatdidyoucallme]

We are really unhappy with our daughter’s school. She’s in Year 3 (7 years old), but 90% of what she learns goes against our beliefs. I don’t like how the teachers are, I feel there’s no structure, and most importantly, she’s not happy there.

She absolutely thrives in gymnastics, performing arts, ballet, and swimming—basically, anything that involves movement. I want to support her talents, but I truly believe she’s in the wrong school. This is already her second school, as we moved her after Year 1, and we can’t afford private performing arts schools.

How can I get her into a good school that focuses on performing arts? What are the requirements? Are there any entrance exams? Does anyone know the best schools in London and the surrounding areas?

I wasn’t raised in the UK, so I find the education system confusing. Any guidance would be really appreciated—thank you!

You might want to look at Tring Park here in Herts

Isn't that a private school tho? Or does it also have a state element?

@Whatdidyoucallme can you explain what is confusing about the education system in England? (I say England as it differs across the countries of the UK; I assume you are in England but of course you may not be).

I have never heard of a state primary school that focuses on performing arts. When you say 90% of what she learns goes against you beliefs, can you explain that a bit? I would expect much of what she learned to be maths, English and other basics.

I would suggest you focus on extra-curricular activities – swimming (she could become a club swimmer) dance school, possibly a local drama group (tho she is quite young) or gymnastics and see where it takes you. There may be more possibility to specialise in secondary – at the very least she will have the opportunity to take GCSEs in drama, PE and music.

Can she just do lots of hobbies outside school?
My daughter has gradually built up but now does dance after school 4 nights a week and theatre school on Saturdays. School is part of her life but not all of her life

By British standards, she's too young to be focusing on gymnastics, ballet etc, it's considered unhealthy here. My DD is also very much into dance and gymnastics but I don't know of any state school in London that would be focusing on performing arts, especially at such an early age. Lots of extra curricular schools and classes in London but they can be costly. If your DD is British and permanently resident in the UK, she can try for Music and Dance Scheme a bit later (age 9 or 8, I can't remember off the top
of my head). She'll need to audition at private schools like Tring, RBS, Elmhurst and if successful, the scheme would cover the fees depending on your household income.

There are much more swimming options available but I know next to nothing about swimming.

Gymnastics prospects depends on the type, for rhythmic it's pretty much a dead end even though there are lots of excellent coaches in clubs. For artistic, Talacre is known to be good but I have no first hand experience.

I think “confusing” was the wrong choice of words. A better term would be “inexperienced” meaning that when you grow up in a certain country, you naturally understand its education system inside and out. In my case, that’s Sweden. Yes, you can read about another system, but it’s not the same as experiencing it firsthand. That’s why I thought to ask you lovely humans for advice.

One thing I do know is that the English school system is one of the best in the world, and I want to make the most of it for my daughter.

Yes, that makes absolute sense. Primary schools don’t typically focus on performing arts. What I’m really looking for is probably guidance on how to prepare my daughter now, so that when the time comes for her to leave primary school, she is on the right path to pursue performing arts.

To answer your question about what I don’t like in her current school ( Puuuhhh are you ready??? lol):

• The teachers yell all day. There is constant shouting, and my daughter is anxious and even says she’s terrified of her teacher.

• I absolutely detest the dojo points system. It feels completely unfair. Every week, the student who gets the most dojo points is a girl who doesn’t speak a word of English. While I understand that she’s learning (bless her heart), the issue is that she doesn’t participate in class due to the language barrier, yet still receives the most points. One week, a student who was off sick got the most points! I get that the school is trying to motivate certain students, but what frustrates me is that my daughter works so hard to participate and engage, yet she is constantly disappointed when she doesn’t get enough points. What message does this send? That hard work isn’t rewarded? That you only get recognition if you’re silent in class (making the teacher’s job easier) or if you’re not even there? I am against this kind of reward system, but I know I can’t change it—I just want out.

And then there’s the final straw: they make the kids watch Newsround every single day. Every. Single. Day! We stopped watching the news years ago because we saw how much it impacted our mental health. Instead, we focus on positive news sources. We want to protect our daughter from things she has no power to change, yet the school fills her head with negativity. Why does my 7-year-old need to know about Trump or Keir Starmer?

I don’t want to start a debate about these things, as I know there are different sections on Mumsnet for that. I’m just sharing my experience because you asked.

For extracurriculars, she swims once a week and does both dancing and gymnastics.

This is exactly why I wanted to write here, thank you so much! I had no idea about the Music and Dance Scheme.

Would you be able to share a bit more about how it works? For example, if I apply to Tring and let them know I can’t afford the fees, do I then go to the government site and apply for funding separately?

Not all primary schools operate that way. Who says the teachers shout, is your dd perhaps oversensitive to noise?

PA tend to be an out of school activity for under 11s, with the occasional show or play in school. Very few state schools have specialist resources or even staff but many private will if you can afford it. Bedes near Eastbourne has a dance curriculum from year 5 for example. If your dd is good enough there are weekend sessions run at organisations such as Royal Ballet school , Brit, Italia Conti etc but it is a huge time commitment, competitive selective entry and you are probably better finding good local providers through the provincial theatre, local dance and drama schools which have a record of training for professional theatre or PA schools. Some of these will offer summer holiday schemes rehearsing and performing a show.

According to the PISA test, UK schools are only marginally better than Swedish ones.
Is it just her classroom teacher who is shouting? It's happens but is fairly unusual. And you are over reacting about Newsround, it's designed for children very carefully and always has something positive and informative. Watch it yourself and see.
As with preforming arts, competitive swimming is something which gets serious round age 9 or 10 and is entirely outside of school (apart from a handful of private secondary schools)

Hmm OK a teacher who shouts a lot is not great. Is it really all day tho? I am surprised tbh. Why is there shouting all day? Is it just one teacher who shouts? Why are they doing this. Who says so?

Class Dojo – argh so what. My DD got student of the week in year 6 – having never got it before. She fully understood that the child who behaved badly and occasionally made the right choice needed to be encouraged. Praise your DD for her effort and engagement. And then let that go.

Newsround is aimed at primary-age children and will not include anything terrible, Personally I am in favour of age-appropriate news info to children but I see you are not. You might just have to live with that tbh. Or yes, maybe watch Newsround.

Overall those things hardly cover everything about a school tbh. The only one that would even slightly bother me is the shouting and I might probe that a bit further. If your DD is scared of her teacher that’s not great. But I think your statement “90% of what she learns is against your beliefs” is putting it a bit strongly if those are your main concerns. Maybe you need to step back a bit and focus on encouraging your DD as I am sure you do.

Here is the gov info on MDS with the list of all participating schools and centres https://www.gov.uk/music-dance-scheme
You'll need to double check eligibility criteria, we're British so I don't remember the details, you'll probably need to be naturalised to be eligible.

In our experience, you just audition for the school from the list and if they want your child, they'll just send you MDS form after acceptance. So I'd start from researching the schools on the list and their requirements.

For classical ballet, it's really really tough and your DD would need to be not just advanced but also the right body type and healthy to be accepted and sustain classical ballet in the long run. It's definitely not the easiest option to escape the boredom and brainwashing of a mainstream school. Academics will also suffer, inevitably.

CAT centres for dance are probably better, The Place in London for example, but these are not full time schools until 16 if I remember correctly. My DD did classical ballet mostly so I don't know much about contemporary routes at The Place etc, other MN parents will probably share more info.

Dance and gymnastics are mostly a financial black hole syphoning all resources from parents and not promising much in return in terms of scholarships at mainstream private schools. DD danced with ballet companies that routinely attract 20+ applications per place but no mainstream private school was particularly interested in that level of ballet achievement as they simply don't have ballet classes at that level. Ballet is a very niche pursuit in the UK. She was also winning gold in gymnastics competitions but the maximum scholarship we could get for that was 10%. There could be more at private schools focusing on sports like Millfield but I didn't explore that.

Swimming is probably better, there must be hefty scholarships for advanced swimmers.

She’s 7. You have no idea what route she would want to pursue in life. I would continue to get her involved in a broad range of extra curricular activities and see what she enjoys / excels at over time and see whether she wants to do it as a job or a hobby when she is old enough to understand the pros and cons. Please do not try and send her down a particular route in life just because you perceive her current school to not be very good. I have seen people do this (albeit at an older age) and it has not produced the desired outcome.

And unfortunately, these school systems are rarely fair and often geared towards those kids who need encouragement to work harder / behave better etc. Just let it wash over you.

There are options.

I'm assuming you are in London btw.

Sylvia Young offers a couple of fully funded places every year - these are incredibly competitive. And there are downsides - one of the conditions is that they will keep 100% of any earnings the child makes while at the school, and you do not get to decide what jobs they do or don't do. It's not a school I would have chosen for my DD for many reasons, and they still follow a normal academic curriculum.

If she's incredibly talented at classical ballet then White Lodge, Elmhurst and Tring are options. Hugely competitive and they also assess out every year at White Lodge which must be very stressful.

Secondary is the earliest age for all of these.

In the state sector, you have BRIT in Croydon. They have places from Y10 and Y12. Hugely competitive. I think I saw there were over 2,000 applications for Y12 music for 50 places this year.

You do strand (dance, MT, music etc) for 4 GCSE equivalent, plus English, Maths, Science and one option alongside.

Having had a child in the performing arts world for over a decade, and one who is continuing on as a career - fortunately music rather than dance or drama - be very cautious. The vast majority of people will end up with a lot of debt and never be employed in that area. Even as a hobby it's incredibly expensive at high level.

No, that's not how it works with performing arts schools.

First the child has to audition (among hundreds of others) and if they are lucky enough to be offered a place, it is at that stage they tell you whether there is funding available or not. The MDS scheme is means-tested on a sliding scale, and if the child is truly exceptional they might be offered a separate bursary or scholarship.

@Whatdidyoucallme to give you an idea of how competitive it is, the Royal Ballet School usually has around a thousand applicants for Year 7 places.

Of that thousand, they will usually take about 12 girls and the same or slightly fewer boys.

What about Elstree Screen Arts? Does anyone have any feedback on that? I saw recently that they got an Outstanding from Ofsted.