EHCP denied AGAIN!!!

[MoreDataPls]

My lovely child has ADHD, ASD and hyper mobility. They attend an ofted outstanding school, however it does not have a SEN department, but has a SENCO. I have just been notified by the council that my child has been denied an ECHP again. The councils reasoning is that the school are providing sufficient support for my child. The only additional support my child receives is reading intervention once a week. They are a proficient although reluctant reader. The EHCP request was thorough, I provided plenty of evidence and documentation, but the request was still denied. So my lovely mumsnetters, based on the attachment of their work, similar to what I provided to the council when requesting the EHCP, what key stage of schooling do you think my child is?

Hard to say. Looks like good comprehension of the lesson content, but bad drawing skills. My year 11 boy would be similar!

I would say approximately 11 years

I think they are probably 10

Impossible to say without further context. What further support do you feel they need that can't be provided without an ehcp?

I'd say the handwriting isn't the neatest but it's legible and spelled correctly (the g at the beginning of "joined" was corrected to a j for instance). The sentences make sense and they clearly understand what Joan of Arc was up to.

If this was an 8 year old I'd think, not too bad. If it was an 18 year old then maybe there would be some additional support needed. I'm guessing 10 or 11?

It's very stressful being turned down.

I assume you mean they have refused to do a needs assessment? Rather than they assessed her needs and decided not to issue a plan?

Did you have in mind what support you were hoping for (like ot/physio for the hypermobility - is there away to pursue this through healthcare not education)

I know this isn't the point of your post! I could just feel the frustration for

I’d say this is an average year 9 child - perhaps not confident with drawing but a good grasp of the lesson content

I don’t know why people ask mumsnet to guess ages - mumsnet is a weird place where everyone seems to think their 4yo is capable of quadratic equations

I'd assume the child was 7 or 8

Ehcp you have to prove a child is failing to make realistic progress. Proving they have a diagnosis isn't really the point.

How to they perform on age appropriate testing?

Former AP SENCO here. Comprehension good, narrative logical. Wouldn’t be at all bothered about the drawing quality, the storyboard is sequential and clear. Given my knowledge of assessing 100s of kids without EHCPs and undiagnosed adhd/asd/dyslexia I’d say possibly aged 12 or 13 - may have missed a fair bit of learning at the crucial stage in ks2 due to Covid. But I’ve seen far, far less able stuff from 16 year olds who have just been allowed to fail and drop out of mainstream due to being “hard work”… so if you say they are 14-15, it won’t surprise me. Clearly bright, though.

My DS's drawing and writing never got better than this level - he has hyper mobility in his hands. Doing fine at a top Uni now.

In my local area we have massive issues with EHCPs being turned down. A whistle blower has said that it’s because the local authority have said that they don’t have enough EHCP writers and therefore knocking the applications back gives them more time AND parents won’t keep pushing to go to tribunal so it keeps their work load under control.

It’s absolutely disgusting. The whole system is awful.

I was a senco for many years and we had to fight (alongside the parents) all the time to get our children the support they need.

Have the LA refused to assess or refused to issue? Does the SENCO think that your child needs an EHCP/ are they being supportive?

If OP had just posted that work without the context and titled the thread ‘I think my child is really advanced and gifted, what age child would you think did this work?’ then most replies would be insisting a 3 or 4 year old could easily produce that sort of work. I don’t think you will really get accurate responses here, posters will tend to try and undermine the OP, even if they’re not being totally honest.

I think we need more context. What support is your child getting and what support do you think they need.

Over 98% of appeals are successful, that means local authorities are making unlawful decisions about assessing in the first place or the plans they produce.

I have just managed to get a needs assessment agreed first time round but I did a lot of ‘homework’ before I made my application and outlined to them I knew the law, they were asking for information's above what was needed and if they didn’t assess I would be appealing.

I’d recommend watching this it’s by a firm of solicitors called Watkins find their YouTube page if the link doesn’t work they have filmed there days they run for parents and it’s all online- essentially free legal advice!

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Be85bvvIWKY

And make sure you use the IPSEA template letters to apply not their forms as these also outline the law

My DS is yr 8 with an EHCP. He draws stick people or roundish bodies with legs. If he drew those pictures I’d be impressed as it would be good for him. The writing is legible - my DS would be similar but the content would be nowhere near as structured and logical and wouldn’t read as proper sentences. His spelling is at a year 1 or 2 level, so he writes sentences based on what he can spell so very little rich varied language. He would also struggle to finish the task, he’d struggle with concentration and focus by the third frame.

Our EHCP was informed by three reports from different professionals (self funded) and provision includes support around literacy, numeracy, emotional regulation, 1-1 scribe / reader, use of laptop, social skills support etc.

Do you know what age your child is functioning at? The problem with school testing is it tests based on expectations of their age, then the following year the bar is raised again, so it’s hard to know where they are (as opposed to where they are not). Has school given an indication?

I mean it really depends how long they spent on it. DS is year 10 and I wouldn't put it past him to submit something at that level - the task would have annoyed him. He has ADHD but isn't anywhere close to qualifying for an ECHP. This handwriting is neater than his!

If making a proper attempt I still think this wouldn't be at all unusual for early secondary, or a weak GCSE student. If your child is doing Alevel history I'd be concerned.

The other point OP is it ultimately depends on how academic your child is. There will be plenty of GCSE students working at this level who don't qualify for an ECHP. The average grade at GCSE is a 4.

This is assuming you're not about to drip feed and say they're 2 and this is your evidence they're a child genius but the school doesn't seem it.

I'd say this is about average for a child of age 7 or 8 but the handwriting is difficult to read. I hope your child gets the support they need.

It's hard to say because there's such a range of abilities, even without SEN.

The plus points of that work are-

It's legible
The spelling is good
It makes sense
It's been completed
It actually looks like the child enjoyed doing it as there's quite a lot of detail - particularly in the drawing

The not so good points

The writing is messy, but there are no page lines which would make straight writing more tricky.
There's no/little punctuation, but as a comic strip that might not reflect how a page of writing would be presented.

I'd say year 7 or 8.

It's actually a better standard than my year 12 could manage who does have an EHCP.

What are their academic abilities like in general? I'm assuming they are behind in their year group. How many years behind are they academically?

Unfortunately if they can manage in school with normal levels of additional support and interventions then an EHCP won't be granted. They have to show a high need for support that the school could not ordinarily provide.

You can appeal.

You say ‘again’, when the LA refused last time, was it a refusal to assess or a refusal to issue and did you appeal?

Was it a refusal to assess or a refusal to issue this time?

I suspect it was a refusal to assess, and for an EHCNA, the only lawful threshold is a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need special educational provision to be made via an EHCP. Any other test, such as the school not spending £6k already, needing 2+ APDR cycles, needing the child to fail to make expected progress…, is unlawful.

It’s a better standard than my Y7 child produces - he has ASD and dyslexia and is working below age related expectations. I have been considering whether I should be looking at EHCP for him - school told me last week they are at the maximum amount of support available

My eldest has Aspergers Syndrome, youngest Autism and ADHD and both have had different experiences of school - it took one good SENCO to get us an EHCP for the youngest and he's now in a specialist school. My eldest? Had to struggle through mainstream to the point of self harm and depression. He is now 18 and unable to work as he's been assessed as incapable of self care, self awareness, safety, you name it - yet he never received an EHCP!! Go through SENSOS and write the application yourself. Be prepared to be rejected, but you can appeal. Just keep going because they reject so many! You can do this,but you may have to do it yourself. Good luck x

@cockywoof when you say average grade at GCSE is a 4 what do you mean? (Mean, median or mode?)

About 2/3rds get a 4 or above for English & Maths Individually.

https://epi.org.uk/publications-and-research/analysis-gcse-results-day-2024/

Mean. The article doesn't specify but average is 4.8 (so can't be mode or median) so you could argue that should be rounded up not down but it doesn't really make a difference to the point.