London Borough of Richmond upon Thames Secondary Schools - What would you do?

[Antipogees]

Hi everyone,

I’m hoping to get some feedback from you all regarding how we best tackle getting into our preferred secondary school.

We’re moving from New Zealand to England in June this year and are aiming to move into the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames (ideally St Margarets or possibly Ham).
We spent 4 years living in South West London (SW14) 7 years ago, so know the Borough fairly well.
Our daughter is 12 (D.O.B 12/12/2012) and our son is 9 (D.O.B 11/07/2015).

We’re unsure if we’re best to put all our eggs in one basket and rent a house as close as we possibly can to Orleans Park Secondary school, if we missed out on that for our daughter then it feels like we’re kind of living in no-mans-land in terms of which school the Richmond Council would then offer her a place at.

Would we be better to move to Ham and move as close as we can to Grey Court School, it feels like there would be a higher chance of getting into Grey Court if we lived very close, vs Orleans Park.

Our preference of secondary schools in the Borough is
Orleans Park
Grey Court
Waldegrave

After those three, we really have no real opinion on what would be best.

Both our kids are more academic than sporty, they both don’t mind sport and participating, they’ll just never be Olympic athletes etc.

Obviously we need to find our son a primary school also, but this seems a bit easier than finding a secondary school for our daughter.

We’d prefer to live in St Margarets over Ham, as it’s a little more lively and it has better transport options in terms of getting into London for work etc.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, do we move somewhere that’s kind of in the middle of multiple school ‘catchments’ or do we focus on one school and try and move as close to that and cross our fingers.
We’d no doubt be signing up for a 1 year lease on a rental property so that could bite us if we end up being placed in a less than preferred option by the Council and we’re quite some distance from the school.

Is another option that we move to St Margarets, try and get our daughter into Orleans Park and our son into Orleans Primary School. If our daughter misses out, then we take the secondary school the council offer us and bide our time with our son eventually getting a year 7 placement at Orleans Park and then try and get our daughter into Orleans Park as a sibling? That would be a three year process though I guess….

It feels like arriving in June and applying for schools once we have signed a rental lease is pretty optimistic in terms of gaining a place, are we better to apply for schools in June/July before the summer break, or do we wait until the start of the school year in September?

We’re not religious at all and sadly can’t afford to pay for private schooling.

Please let me know what you would do in our situation.

Thanks!

@Antipogees , hope your arrival in the U.K. has gone well.

Hi, thank you for the welcome.
We’re getting over the jet lag, we’ve applied for a rental property in St Margarets which has been accepted, it’s 350 metres (0.217 mile) from Orleans Park School so I think we’re doing all we can in that regard.

Sadly the move-in date of 12th July is after the cut-off date for applying for schools in Richmond, which is 27th June. So our two children will now have to wait until September to see where they might end up. My daughter will be year 8 and my son year 6 come September.

Does anyone know what the Richmond Council admissions team can tell us in terms of how many people in a particular year are on a waitlist? And also are they able to tell us the distances away from the school of the people on the waitlist?

If anyone reading this has children at Orleans Park, I would love to message you with some questions, please get it touch. Thanks.

Hello, welcome back to the UK.

Sorry if I have missed this but have you spoken/ emailed the people in charge of admissions for Orleans Park and Orleans primary School directly? I found that to be really helpful in personal experience and we were given the information on where we sat in the waiting list but this was at a VA school so I don’t know if there’s a slightly different process.

I can’t help with direct experience of Orleans Park as I’m in the same borough but kids at different schools.

If you go to this page on Orleans Park's website and scroll down to "Admissions Statistics" it will give you some helpful info: https://www.orleanspark.school/key-information/item/1/admissions

There were 1620 on-time applications for Sep 2024, and presumably many later in-year applications like yours, so, if all of those were first preference (unlikely) there would be around 1400 currently on the waiting list. That may sound like a lot, but it is only the number living closer than you that matters. Of course, not all of them will want to remain on the list for year 8 - they will need to reapply for that.

As a previous poster said, the admissions clerk at the school might give you more info than the council's admissions team, so it's worth asking both.

I would ask for the distances for the top 5 applicants on the waiting list - they may refuse to tell you, but I don't see on what grounds as it's not personal information.

Well, today I emailed Orleans Park and received a very copy and paste reply…
I guess I’ll email the council on Monday.

“Thank you for your email and interest in Orleans Park.

We are currently full in all of our year groups and are unaware of any spaces coming up.

Orleans Park is a very popular school and we have waiting lists for all year groups held in strict criteria order as explained on the website below.”

If you get no joy from the LA, you could try an FOI request: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/orleansparkschooltwickenham

You'd need to get it in soon though, if to the school. They have 20 working days to respond, but the school will soon be closed for the summer holidays.

Alternatively, it would be this FOI page for the LA admissions team:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/achieving_for_children

However, given the time of year, if you leave it too long, you might get a similar response to this: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/availablechildrensplacesinse#incoming-2749283

@Antipogees your calculation of 2.0km to Grey Court School includes Ferry (which runs in the summer only). Did you check with the council to see if is OK to use the ferry in your calculations?

Hi, I haven’t checked with the council but I’m assuming it’s not allowed. We’ve moved less than 300 metres from Orleans Park School so are crossing our fingers that we’ll eventually get our daughter into year 8.

Hi everyone,

We’ve had a reply from the AFC Richmond Admissions team.
Below are the schools with places available as of 24th June.
As we’ve just arrived from New Zealand we don’t have any real knowledge of these schools.
We’ll miss the June 27 cutoff for places in July, which may not be a bad thing looking at what’s available right now.

Can anyone comment on these schools? I’m happy for a private message if you’d prefer.

Thank you.

——————————————-
We do not provide provisional wait lists in advance of an application as the wait list are subject to significant change at this time of year.We would advise that you apply for your preferred schools, even if they are oversubscribed, as this will enable your children to automatically go on the wait lists. We will then advise you which schools have availability within a reasonable distance from your home address. Please be aware that this could be up to 45 minutes from your home for a primary aged child and 75 minutes for a secondary aged child.

There are currently places available at the schools below:

Current Year 7
Hampton High

Current Year 5
Holy Trinity CE School
The Vineyard
Trafalgar Junior School
Kew Riverside
The Kings School
Darell Primary
Sheen Mount Primary
Heathfield Junior School
St Richard's CE School
Stanley Primary
Nelson Primary

@Antipogees all the schools in the borough are good. For primary it is best to choose the closest to help your younger child make friends that they can transition to secondary school with.

Hampton High is a good school - many people put it as their first choice. It isn't the most convenient journey from where you'll be living, but you definitely shouldn't reject the offer if its the only one on the table.

Hey I just want to say good luck with getting your first choice. I’ve been following your thread and wish you the very best.

We are looking to move to Kingston/Richmond area to live to for year 7 2026.
We probably won’t be able to move before the cut off date either so hoping it works out by or you.

@Antipogees , I would go with The Vineyard for a primary near where your home will be and Trafalgar for a primary on the car route to Hampton High (but not good for making local friends this summer etc).

The Vineyard is a great school but it’s not a great journey in combination with Hampton High - opposite direction and slap bang on the top of Richmond Hill! Beautiful area but slightly cut-off, although with its own community of shops and cafes up there (plus best possible views…). However your Y7 child would presumably be making their own way to secondary so the school run issues aren’t such a consideration? It would be my pick of those primaries. Trafalgar is recovering after two ‘Required Improvement’ ofsted ratings in a row. It was last rated Good in 2023. The Vineyard used to be an ‘Outstanding’ all the way, and then came down to Good last time after Ofsted tightened up its ratings.

Also - I believe Hampton High doesn’t have a sixth form? But their students get some kind of priority admission for Esher College. I guess what you could do is accept the place but stay on as many wait lists as possible and be prepared to take another place elsewhere. Its Progress 8 results aren’t fantastic but aren’t terrible either.

The OP's dd should get into Orleans Park 6th form because she will be a sibling by then because her brother will get into year 7 due to their postcode.
Hopefully the dd will get in before then anyway if she goes to the top of the WL.

Agree you’ll need to think about transport logistics. Parking can be impossible and none of those primaries are really that walkable. There is a good bus route between St Margaret’s and Trafalgar Junior. You’d massively struggle to park anywhere near Trafalgar twice a day.

In principle, no healthy, mobile year 7 child should be driven to secondary school. Public transport is strongly encouraged by schools and by the local authority.

There is an easy bus route from St. Margarets to Hampton High, and the same bus will take you to Trafalgar junior school. There will be others doing the same journey (probably for the same teasons)

Hi everyone, thank you for your helpful answers and insight.
Unfortunately we’re going to miss the cut-off of June 27th for applying this school year anyhow, as we can’t move into our place until 12th July. We’re not putting too much energy into the available places as of now.

We’re happy to ‘sacrifice’ (horrible thing to say I know) our son’s year 6 primary with the knowledge that living so close to Orleans Park School (just under 300 metres/ .2 mile) that he’ll be offered a place there for year 7.
The stressful part is with our daughter who’s 12 1/2 and really at that age where she’s all about being with friends.

We’ve accepted our daughter could end up as far away as Richmond Park Academy or Hampton High School, we’ll keep her on the waitlist for Orleans and hope that eventually, it all works out for the best.

We’ve signed a 2 year lease with a 12 month break clause at our current place.

Can we be on multiple waitlists for different schools or only one?

@Antipogees you can be on as many waiting lists as you like.

They will initially ask for 6 preferences on the application form but, once you have an offer, you will be automatically added to waiting lists for higher preference schools that aren't offered, and you can ask to be added to additional waiting lists too. (You should still accept the offer though).

You are classed as an in-year admission so this is the info you need: https://kr.afcinfo.org.uk/pages/community-information/information-and-advice/school-admissions/changing-schools-in-year

You may get allocated a school miles away that didn't fill it's quota in the normal way.
You won't want that school.

There won't really be movement in wait list places until September when kids don't turn up for the places that were allocated. Also schools and their admittance officers are on holiday all summer so there isn't anyone to do anything.

Full out the form, get on the wait list, then stay calm until September term starts.

Thank you @tentaclez and @Rollercoaster1920 .

We’re hoping to fill out our applications this coming Saturday once we’ve moved into our new house.

Do either of you know how this Group C question works with regards to proving your address?

Group C (evidence relating to habitual residency of the parent and child)

• A copy of an electricity bill showing current levels of energy usage at the new property

The way I understand that, is that you can’t apply until one month after you’ve moved into your new address and have received your first electricity bill. if that’s the case, then this is most frustrating….

I think the next section is more relevant to you - for people moving from abroad, including this bit:

"For families moving into the borough from outside the UK, applications will be considered prior to your arrival. Initially, the overseas address will be used, even if you own property within Richmond.
A Richmond address will only be accepted for admission purposes once you and your child are residing permanently at that address and you have provided proof of your arrival in the UK. Acceptable evidence includes a copy of your child’s boarding pass or an immigration stamp in their passport."

Do you think that the electricity bill doesn’t apply to us?

This is what we believe we need to provide, we have everything bar the electricity bill as we don’t move in until this coming Saturday.

Group A (evidence relating to the new property)

● For tenants, full copy of the current Assured Shorthold Tenancy agreement that is signed by both the landlord and the applicant;

AND
Group B (evidence relating to the previous property)

● A check-out report from a rented property, to show the date the applicant
handed in the keys, or a letter or email from the landlord or letting agent of a
rented property, showing the date the applicant moved out;

AND
Group C (evidence relating to habitual residency of the parent and child)
● A copy of an electricity bill showing current levels of energy usage at the new
property, PLUS two further documents from the following list, showing the
applicant’s new address and dated before the request for further information
was sent:
● A copy of the applicant’s driving licence (a copy of an application to amend the
licence is not sufficient);
● A GP letter showing the applicant has registered their child at a local surgery
which includes the date of registration;
● Confirmation of the applicant’s home contents insurance or car insurance;
● Official correspondence from the HM Revenue & Customs, or the Department for
Work and Pensions relating to benefit entitlement, dated within the last three
months;
● Vehicle Registration Document (V5C) showing the applicant’s name and address.
AND
Group D (if applicable, evidence relating to a child arriving from overseas)
● If the applicant has moved to England from overseas, in addition to the above
documents they must provide evidence of the child’s entry into the UK (for
example, a boarding pass or entry stamp in the passport) before the address
verification can be completed and the local address used for measuring home to school distance.
4.5 Mobile phone bills, credit card statements, bank statements, and inclusion on the
electoral roll are not proof that a person lives at an address, and will not be accepted.