London Borough of Richmond upon Thames Secondary Schools - What would you do?

[Antipogees]

Hi everyone,

I’m hoping to get some feedback from you all regarding how we best tackle getting into our preferred secondary school.

We’re moving from New Zealand to England in June this year and are aiming to move into the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames (ideally St Margarets or possibly Ham).
We spent 4 years living in South West London (SW14) 7 years ago, so know the Borough fairly well.
Our daughter is 12 (D.O.B 12/12/2012) and our son is 9 (D.O.B 11/07/2015).

We’re unsure if we’re best to put all our eggs in one basket and rent a house as close as we possibly can to Orleans Park Secondary school, if we missed out on that for our daughter then it feels like we’re kind of living in no-mans-land in terms of which school the Richmond Council would then offer her a place at.

Would we be better to move to Ham and move as close as we can to Grey Court School, it feels like there would be a higher chance of getting into Grey Court if we lived very close, vs Orleans Park.

Our preference of secondary schools in the Borough is
Orleans Park
Grey Court
Waldegrave

After those three, we really have no real opinion on what would be best.

Both our kids are more academic than sporty, they both don’t mind sport and participating, they’ll just never be Olympic athletes etc.

Obviously we need to find our son a primary school also, but this seems a bit easier than finding a secondary school for our daughter.

We’d prefer to live in St Margarets over Ham, as it’s a little more lively and it has better transport options in terms of getting into London for work etc.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, do we move somewhere that’s kind of in the middle of multiple school ‘catchments’ or do we focus on one school and try and move as close to that and cross our fingers.
We’d no doubt be signing up for a 1 year lease on a rental property so that could bite us if we end up being placed in a less than preferred option by the Council and we’re quite some distance from the school.

Is another option that we move to St Margarets, try and get our daughter into Orleans Park and our son into Orleans Primary School. If our daughter misses out, then we take the secondary school the council offer us and bide our time with our son eventually getting a year 7 placement at Orleans Park and then try and get our daughter into Orleans Park as a sibling? That would be a three year process though I guess….

It feels like arriving in June and applying for schools once we have signed a rental lease is pretty optimistic in terms of gaining a place, are we better to apply for schools in June/July before the summer break, or do we wait until the start of the school year in September?

We’re not religious at all and sadly can’t afford to pay for private schooling.

Please let me know what you would do in our situation.

Thanks!

Have you contacted the 3 schools and asked how long the year 7 waiting lists are currently? Of course if you move near to the school you move further up the list but it will give you an idea of the length. I would also contact Teddington school so you can compare as a good school but more open to spaces coming up. You need to be realistic that you might never get a place at Orleans for your dd due to its popularity and dc rarely move school after year 9.

Your daughter would already be in year 7 (going into year 8 in Sept) so you are looking at in year admissions for her anyway - you might as well apply as soon as you can. Nothing to be gained by waiting until September. You will be reliant on where there are spaces.

Even if you accept a place initially you can stay on waiting lists and move her if another school you prefer has a space.

Your son will be in year 5 (year 6 in September) and so being in place for you to apply for a secondary school for him will be important as applications will close in October 2025 to join year 7 in September 2026, so actually your rental property address will be very relevant for him. You would need to check the schools' admissions policies to see whether either sibling would have priority for admissions once in school but just bear in mind that your daughter will be in year 9 when her brother is in year 7 - some schools start GCSE courses in year 9 so this should be factored in if you are considering any moves then (also - she may not want to move schools if she's been there for over a year or more than that, because you would still be reliant on a place coming up.)

School rolls are falling in London so you may find it more straightforward than you think. In our area, some schools are closing due to low numbers. Call the schools and they’ll give you a good indication of the likelihood of spaces.

To add, call before Year 7 offers day on Monday 3rd March as admissions staff will be busy after that for some time.

@Antipogees the current year 7 is very full in all local schools. If you aim to move as close as possible to any of the 3 schools you listed then you will be competing with many others doing the same thing. There are threads on here almost every other week with parents asking similar questions.

There is no point finding out "how long" the waiting lists are. The numbers that matter more are the home-school distances of the people at/near the top of the list, because you will need to move closer.

There is not much point living equidistant from all 3 schools because then you will be low on the waiting list for all of them.

If your criterion for picking those 3 schools is that they have an outstanding Ofsted rating, then another school you might want to look at is Turing House, because it was recently upgraded to Ofsted outstanding too. You would need to live in the Fulwell / North Teddington area near their nodal admissions point.

You need to apply as soon as you have a rental contract. The application form will ask whether you want a place immediately or in September. I would say immediately, as there may be a bit less competition. Even if you accept a place you're not 100% happy with, you will still be able to stay on the waiting list for higher preference schools. Read Richmond's in-year admissions brochure carefully. You can download it from here: https://kr.afcinfo.org.uk/pages/community-information/information-and-advice/school-admissions/changing-schools-in-year
There are sections on moving from abroad and applying for places for September.

Hold on to the fact that all.of the borough's schools are good. Some of them may be 'outstanding', so more competitive to get into, but the others are still good options. People may criticise some schools, but that is usually because of past reputations, or negative personal experience that might not be relevant to your child.

If the Admissions team are unable to find your son a place immediately, and he is out of school for 4 weeks, then they will need to use the Fair Access Protocol to place him in a school that is already full. That can work out well, or not. You will need to accept whatever place is offered because if you turn a place down then they are not obliged to offer you another (though you can home-school and stay on waiting lists).

Rolls are falling in London but some outer boroughs such as Kingston (which borders Richmond) have rising numbers so it’s not always the case that places are easier to get in the suburbs

Primary school rolls are down in Richmond, due to low birth rates, but that is at least partly compensated by inflow from other boroughs and from abroad, due to the good reputation of the schools.

The secondaries are all currently very full in year 7 and 8 - they were peak years for numbers.

The forecast numbers in each cohort are published in the borough's school place planning documents online, so easy to find.

Practically all primary schools in Twickenham have places. I know because I’ve had 5 friends move from private to state

Hi everyone, thank you for your replies so far, this is all very helpful.

So it feels like we should target our preferred school and move as close as we can to that (Orleans Park and Orelans Primary)
I may start emailing our preferred primary and secondary schools to get a feel for how long their wait lists are.

It really doesn't matter whether there are 50 people on the waiting list or 500. The waiting lists are ordered by admissions policy criteria - usually distance - so you need to ask them what the shortest distance is, then move closer.

It's not the same for London secondaries, especially the better managed ones

Can anyone tell me where the distance from school is actually measured from? It may seem a silly question but when I type some of the school postcodes into Googlemaps it shows the centre of the sports field etc. Are they taken from the main reception/office of the school or is it literally where Google drops the pin when I enter the postcode?

It'll say in the admissions policy. It's usually the main gate, but sometimes it says any gate, and sometimes it's a point on site.

The LA admissions team calculate the distances using their own GPS (not Google Maps).

Hi there, could you give me some names of primary schools that your friends have found in-year places at please.

St Mary’s, St James and Archdeacon

I used to live in this area and all I can say is, good luck! Have a look at the admissions info that was published when the high school offers were made a couple of weeks ago. This will guide your decision making. It will work out eventually, but be aware that there will be many people in the queue before you and you can’t just swan in at the last minute and get the spaces you want. It simply doesn’t work like that!

It is ironic because I live in a three bed Victorian house to Orleans school that I am having to leave empty while I travel for work for a year, because the incoming government has changed the rules about EPC so I cannot let it out. (It is a lovely place, warm, not damp etc but like many properties locally does not fit the criteria, so you may find renting more difficult than you think and with much less choice of area.) And the gvt has also ruled out allowing tenants to pay 6 month in advance -which will also disadvantage renters coming from overseas. So do try to get your rental sorted asap!

"you can’t just swan in at the last minute and get the spaces you want. It simply doesn’t work like that!"

Actually, it does work exactly like that if you are placed higher on the waiting list than everyone else. For this, you usually 'just' need to move closer than them, and keep your fingers crossed that nobody leapfrogs you before a place comes available.

However, the Fair Access Protocol means that no child will be left without a place, it just might not be the place that the family wants.

Thanks for your reply’s everyone.
We’re going to aim to move as close as we possibly can to Orleans, from the properties I’ve seen on Rightmove and Zoopla we will hopefully be within .3 mile (500 metres) of the school.
I think we’re going to sacrifice a bit even if the property isn’t very nice, just to try and give ourselves the best chance. We’re currently looking at 3 bedroom places up to £3000pcm

Hi again everyone, for those in the know, if we’re not religious at all and not prepared to willingly send our kids to a C of E or Catholic school, can the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames Council pick that school for us if there’s no spaces at our first preferences?
Also can the local council push us to a school in another council borough if all their schools are oversubscribed?

Looking at the state secondary schools in the borough they all seem pretty good from what we can garner from their websites.

Distance wise if I use Orleans Park as the starting point, how realistic would it be that we may end up as far away as Hampton High at 5.3km (3.3 miles) distance? I know this probably crystal ball material….

0.0km Orleans Park “Ofsted Outstanding”
1.2km (Catholic) St Richard Reynolds “Ofsted Outstanding”
1.9km The Richmond upon Thames School “Ofsted Good”
2.0km (includes Ferry) Grey Court School “Ofsted Outstanding”
2.6km Waldegrave “Ofsted Outstanding”
3.0km (CofE) Christs Foundation “Ofsted Good”
3.7km Twickenham School “Ofsted Good”
3.9km Turing House “Ofsted Good”
4.1km Teddington School “Ofsted Good”
5.2km Richmond Park Academy “Ofsted Good”
5.3km Hampton High “Ofsted Good”

(These are Googlemaps walking distances)

@Antipogees , currently do you know if any of those schools have a year 7 space or are you relying on someone leaving at the end of year 7 for all the schools listed?

"If we’re not religious at all and not prepared to willingly send our kids to a C of E or Catholic school, can the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames Council pick that school for us if there’s no spaces at our first preferences?"

Yes, they can. Faith schools have to be inclusive of all faiths and none. However, the borough's faith schools are usually fully subscribed, so it may not happen in practice.

"Also can the local council push us to a school in another council borough if all their schools are oversubscribed?"

No, each borough has legal responsibility for making sure there are enough places for its children in its own schools.

"how realistic would it be that we may end up as far away as Hampton High at 5.3km (3.3 miles) distance?"

Fairly likely if it's the only school with a place. If there are no places at any of your preferences, they will offer a place at the nearest school with spaces. If there are no spaces at any school, the FAP panel will discuss where to place your child (and you will have a case worker to represent your views).

The R70 bus goes directly from Orleans Park to near Hampton High.

@tennissquare We’ve not reached out to any of the schools yet as we thought they’d be super busy with submissions for the start of the next school year. Also, as we’re not moving over until early June we thought it was too early to email for any real solid answers. This is all very new to us, so I’ll take any advice though :)

That's the right decision. Any places available now will be gone within a few days.

@tentaclez Amazing, thanks for your answers.

Such a stressful thing this moving, it’s something that we really should have done way back when our eldest was in year 5 to prepare for year 7.
We should have done our homework a few years back….In New Zealand, all state schools have mapped out catchments and if you move into that catchment area you are guaranteed a place at that school, even during the school year.