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Additional Teachers in state schools

83 replies

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 17/02/2025 08:58

The 20% VAT on private schooling was, we were told, meant to provide more teachers for the state sector.

Has anybody had an increase in funding to their school for additional teachers?

Has anybody had an increase in teacher numbers (FTEs)?

If not why not?

OP posts:
twistyizzy · 18/02/2025 06:15

100PercentFaithful · 17/02/2025 23:08

Over the last decade nearly 90 private schools have closed each year anyway. What with the falling birth rates that number was only going to increase.
I live in the South East and many local state primary and secondary schools have applied to reduce PAN for next academic year. A few pupils bumping up state school numbers will be helpful.
Most Private school pupils already live in nice areas, so suggestions that they will suddenly start to move into nice areas driving out average families are a bit of a nonsense.

Your data on closures is wrong. In any case 18 have announced closures since 1st Jan which is nearly 3 x more than average

Additional Teachers in state schools
forthwrong · 18/02/2025 08:37

twistyizzy · 17/02/2025 18:42

Actually fee inflation has risen slightly under general inflation over last 20 years.

Not so. There was a 55% real terms (i.e. above inflation) increase from 2003 to 2024. source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cje30vq7yypo
Adding in the 16% that has been passed on to parents from VAT, the real terms increase from 2003 to the present is around 70%.

twistyizzy · 18/02/2025 08:41

forthwrong · 18/02/2025 08:37

Not so. There was a 55% real terms (i.e. above inflation) increase from 2003 to 2024. source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cje30vq7yypo
Adding in the 16% that has been passed on to parents from VAT, the real terms increase from 2003 to the present is around 70%.

The VAT is government imposed though and many are having to pass on the full 20%

twistyizzy · 18/02/2025 08:42

forthwrong · 18/02/2025 08:37

Not so. There was a 55% real terms (i.e. above inflation) increase from 2003 to 2024. source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cje30vq7yypo
Adding in the 16% that has been passed on to parents from VAT, the real terms increase from 2003 to the present is around 70%.

BoE own figures show inflation rose by approx 80% over last 24 years so fees have been pretty much in line with that.

forthwrong · 18/02/2025 09:11

twistyizzy · 18/02/2025 08:42

BoE own figures show inflation rose by approx 80% over last 24 years so fees have been pretty much in line with that.

You've got the wrong end of the stick. It is widely known that private school fees have grown significantly faster than inflation over the last 20-30 years.

Here's a guardian article from 2003:
www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/may/01/schools.education
which states:
"Average annual full boarding fees were £16,776, while the annual figure for day pupils was £7,188"

The current good schools guide
www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk/choosing-a-school/independent-schools/private-school-fees-explained
states:
"Average fees for private day schools are about £17,000 a year and £40,000 for boarding"

These figures demonstrate a 137% increase in fees for both boarding and day pupils since 2003.
Bank of England CPI figures do show that CPI has been 80% over the same period.
137% is significantly greater than 80%. It's entirely consistent with the 55% real terms increase I cited elsewhere.

Attached is is a graph from the independent which shows clearly the same trend over a longer period. Source:
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-charts-that-shows-how-private-school-fees-have-exploded-a7023056.html

Additional Teachers in state schools
twistyizzy · 18/02/2025 09:59

forthwrong · 18/02/2025 09:11

You've got the wrong end of the stick. It is widely known that private school fees have grown significantly faster than inflation over the last 20-30 years.

Here's a guardian article from 2003:
www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/may/01/schools.education
which states:
"Average annual full boarding fees were £16,776, while the annual figure for day pupils was £7,188"

The current good schools guide
www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk/choosing-a-school/independent-schools/private-school-fees-explained
states:
"Average fees for private day schools are about £17,000 a year and £40,000 for boarding"

These figures demonstrate a 137% increase in fees for both boarding and day pupils since 2003.
Bank of England CPI figures do show that CPI has been 80% over the same period.
137% is significantly greater than 80%. It's entirely consistent with the 55% real terms increase I cited elsewhere.

Attached is is a graph from the independent which shows clearly the same trend over a longer period. Source:
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-charts-that-shows-how-private-school-fees-have-exploded-a7023056.html

And you are purposely ignoring WHY fees have risen which links back to my conment about inflation.
Fees pay for salaries, pensions, utility bills and day to day running of the school. All of these have risen (especially utility bills) therefore fees have risen. It is disingenuous to state fees have risen in isolation without looking at the rate of inflation over that period of time because they are linked.

Runemum · 18/02/2025 10:44

@100PercentFaithful I assume you realise that the south east isn't the whole country.
Where I live, we have had huge population growth. Many of the secondary schools have had to create extra classes because that is where the bubble in the population is. We also have a shortage of teachers.
Most parents want the best education for their child and many will move to get it. The Sutton Trust has highlighted that disadvantaged children are far more likely to go to a school requiring improvement. We would better off giving parents a voucher of say £6,000 (less than the £7,400 to educate in a state school) to use for private schools and encouraging more people to go to take the burden off the state. In society, if more people go to private schools, it reduces inequality because it would not just be the elite going but lots of people who can afford to top up. There would also be more money for state schools for people who can't afford to top up.

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 18/02/2025 12:49

Runemum · 18/02/2025 10:44

@100PercentFaithful I assume you realise that the south east isn't the whole country.
Where I live, we have had huge population growth. Many of the secondary schools have had to create extra classes because that is where the bubble in the population is. We also have a shortage of teachers.
Most parents want the best education for their child and many will move to get it. The Sutton Trust has highlighted that disadvantaged children are far more likely to go to a school requiring improvement. We would better off giving parents a voucher of say £6,000 (less than the £7,400 to educate in a state school) to use for private schools and encouraging more people to go to take the burden off the state. In society, if more people go to private schools, it reduces inequality because it would not just be the elite going but lots of people who can afford to top up. There would also be more money for state schools for people who can't afford to top up.

That would be incredibly sensible.

Vouchers would reduce the strain on state provision, would mean more jobs in the private sector (teachers, support staff etc) and increase choice for parents.

Smaller classes in state, more time and money for SEN.

The big issue is the huge chip about class in this country.

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