Additional Teachers in state schools

[ByQuaintAzureWasp]

The 20% VAT on private schooling was, we were told, meant to provide more teachers for the state sector.

Has anybody had an increase in funding to their school for additional teachers?

Has anybody had an increase in teacher numbers (FTEs)?

If not why not?

Work in state primary. People leave and are not replaced due to deficit budget. I am SLT and the number of roles and responsibilities placed upon me has broken me. Leaving before my career is irreparable.
I don't know the answer but I do know that expecting more and more of the experienced remaining staff is not going to achieve positive outcomes. Genuinely worried for the future of state education.

For context we are a state primary within a multi academy trust - there is no extra pot of money... we pay to be part of the trust, with money that could put more teachers and support staff on the ground.

All I see is a building of dysregulated adults expected to regulate dysregulated children as well as the expectation of accelerated academic progress. Recipe for disaster and huge impact to children and their teachers mental health and well being.

The system (like many other public sectors) is very much broken and I worry for this generation of children and the next.

I’m a teacher. There are currently hundreds of teachers without contracts. Training them isn’t an issue. Advertising a job can be done in a week. Training and advertising aren’t bsrriers to this fictional recruitment drive.

It really doesn't work like that!

Locally we are delighted, my LA has closed/consulted on the closure of 18 primary schools, in the last 8 years. Small secondary schools are struggling, sixth form being amalgamated too.

More pupils will be great.
Teachers will welcome their jobs saved.
Schools will be able to fill their classes rather than 40 pupils and two teachers, an extra 20 pupils will give a much healthier budget.

So many positives.

We can’t just “teach another subject” we teach the subject we are trained in.

You hold very odd thoughts about how education works.

Since I qualified as a teacher 30 years ago, I’ve taught all sorts of subjects outside my specialism. as directed by the headteacher. My PGCE certificate says Upper Primary, yet I’ve taught from Nursery to GCSE. I know exactly how teachers’ contracts work.

What are the barriers, in your opinion?

As permanent jobs? I’ve heard of short and long term cover being done like that but never permanent jobs. Although I’m in Scotland which I don’t think is in as bad a state for teaching jobs as England.

Starting the process!

Yes - I went from primary (state) to secondary (independent) and back to primary (state) before moving to secondary SEN (mainstream state) where I was timetabled for several different subjects over the years. All permanent jobs - just not the permanent jobs I signed up for. There are many PE teachers who are teaching more secondary Maths each week than they’re teaching secondary PE.

Have to say I agree with this. Currently considering independent for our DD. All we've visited have a teacher and TA per class of 15-20. But what shocked me most is the number of their TA's who are qualified experienced teachers (not as a requirement). In one school all but one of their TA's were also a qualified teacher! What does that say about that state system pay and conditions if they'd rather be a TA than teach.

https://getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/landing/how-to-fund-your-teacher-training?gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD_WOvqvW7V3IYsqjXO1ES0CtCLhO&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImM3w0N3HiwMVdZRQBh2gyxssEAAYASAAEgJWevD_BwE

There are plenty of qualified teachers working as TAs in state schools, too.

We (Scotland) have more teachers than jobs. The last jobs advertised in our school attracted 62 applicants. Training isn’t the issue. Schools haven’t yet been presented with additional/increased staffing allocations

I have taught economics, business, ICT, leisure and tourism, history and English, as well as been SENCO. Most high school teachers can teach other subjects within reason.

Do we really want PE teachers teaching maths, though? I thought qualified teachers with appropriate subject matter expertise (especially for secondary) was the goal, not just warm bodies in front of a class. Even if Labour manages the extra teachers (doubtful), would anyone be happy if maths and sciences continues to be taught largely by non-specialists?

no shade on PE teachers, btw - dds have absolutely brilliant PE teachers that have made a massive impact, but I don’t think anyone would be happy (least of all the teachers themselves) if they were reassigned to cover maths on a long term basis.

@Silverbook55 tbh that's the case where I work too and it's very much 'if you can teach you can teach anything'
There are 600+ vacancies in my county and in the school I work at we literally cannot hire. The cover we have had has been appalling too.

Why not is because by the time they educate all those who have moved to state, plus pay some taxi fares where no local school, plus the lost tax revenue from the schools that have closed, it's going to lose the taxpayer money. Even the best projections was just under one teacher per school. @ByQuaintAzureWasp if you were expecting it to actually be a thought out policy to benefit state schools you are sadly naive, it's ideological.

I don’t think we are happy, but the fact is that mathematicians can earn more outside teaching and not be micromanaged. If they wanted to teach high school Maths they would.

Yes, I’ve heard it’s very difficult to get a teaching job in Scotland.

I think with a few exceptions, it’s anyone with a pulse and a clean DBS in many secondary academies now. The cheaper the better.

Which suggests that Labour’s approach has no hope of giving parents or teachers what they want with or without the vat money (should it amount to anything at all).

fwiw, our indie has no trouble attracting specialist teachers, including maths. They don’t pay better than state schools either. More attractive pay, especially in difficult to recruit subjects and for more experienced teachers, is probably a part of the solution but I don’t think compensation alone is the reason teachers are leaving and we can’t find and train replacements fast enough

Over the last decade nearly 90 private schools have closed each year anyway. What with the falling birth rates that number was only going to increase.
I live in the South East and many local state primary and secondary schools have applied to reduce PAN for next academic year. A few pupils bumping up state school numbers will be helpful.
Most Private school pupils already live in nice areas, so suggestions that they will suddenly start to move into nice areas driving out average families are a bit of a nonsense.

private school closures are tracking at about double the normal rate this year, as I understand it, though 2 months into the year it is difficult to know for certain how this will hold. As for falling birth rates and falling enrolment numbers it very much depends on what years you are consider (Those entering secondary still very much in peak), as well as your geography as there are many LAs that are struggling to find places for displaced children.

Most Private school pupils already live in nice areas, so suggestions that they will suddenly start to move into nice areas driving out average families are a bit of a nonsense.

what utter nonsense, but even if a family isn’t moving into the catchment if the switch from private to state it still means another child will lose out on that desirable state school

The £29k training bursary for Maths has been on offer for years, so it’s a problem Labour has inherited. Given that 92.5% of students don’t attend independent school and that the 7.5% of students who did attend is now falling due to VAT, I don’t know what the solution is.

Department for Education:
“For 2025 to 2026 we are offering bursaries of:

• £29,000 in chemistry, computing, mathematics and physics
• £26,000 in biology, design and technology, geography and languages (including ancient languages)
• £10,000 in art and design, music and religious education (RE)
• £5,000 in English

Applicants may be eligible for a bursary if they have 1st, 2:1, 2:2, PhD or master’s.

We are offering scholarships of:

• £31,000 in chemistry, computing, mathematics and physics
• £28,000 in French, German and Spanish (no other languages)

Scholarships are usually available to applicants with a 1st, 2:1, master’s or PhD, though in exceptional circumstances they may be awarded to a graduate with a 2:2 and significant relevant experience.”

I think this demonstrates it isn’t (purely) a financial issue for graduates - there are bigger issues in teaching affecting general interest as well as retention, and extra tax on private schools isn’t going to move the needle.