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Original poster

Unqualified Teachers

232 replies

everychildmatters · 07/02/2025 09:55

Why is there not complete outrage re the above? I'd rather my daughter not be "taught" full-time by someone who potentially does not need one formal qualification to their name.
I'm glad I walked out of teaching profession last year after 20 years in.
Enough is enough.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 09/02/2025 11:04

The effort required to create a card sort for maths is generally not worth it.

I used a card sort resource the other day with an A-level group, it was matching a scenario with the differential equation that modelled it. I briefly toyed with the idea of getting them to cut them out but then they just wrote the differential equation next to the scenario and saved a lot of faff.

Writing stuff in maths is so important, any activity that doesn't involve them writing should be treated with caution.

sashh · 09/02/2025 11:11

I think we have to remember whilst quibbling over whether people have A levels in a subject, or even degrees that there are quite a lot of GCSE and A level subjects where the A level might not have existed when teachers themselves were at school and where there are no or very few teacher training routes (psychology, economics, sociology, media, film, medical science, child development all spring to mind). But I do know that getting someone in from the 'film industry' to try and teach GCSE or A level often ends in unmitigated chaos.

LOL I'm so old GCSEs had not been invented when I left school.

You also get teachers who have hobbies relevant to a subject they don't have a qualification in. I was given a year 8 photography class one day (I did supply) and I had enough experience from photography as a hobby to actually do something meaningful with the class.

Meredusoleil · 09/02/2025 11:30

everychildmatters · 08/02/2025 03:21

@Catapultaway For me it was a 4 year degree route (in which a 2:1 was the minimum you had to have), one year PGCE (inc placements) which you could't get on without recent, relevant experience of working in a school), then one year of what was known back then as a qualifying year which you had to pass first time. So 6 years in total before I was awarded QTS.
This was 20 years ago though. Not needed now.

I also finished my PGCE 20 years ago in 2004.

I got my QTS straight away and then had to do one year of induction within a 5 year limit. Which I completed in 2005.

I also had to sit basic Literacy, Numeracy and ICT tests online before getting the QTS. These have been abolished now I believe?

It should not have taken you 6 years to finish!

ShowOfHands · 09/02/2025 11:51

Meredusoleil · 09/02/2025 11:30

I also finished my PGCE 20 years ago in 2004.

I got my QTS straight away and then had to do one year of induction within a 5 year limit. Which I completed in 2005.

I also had to sit basic Literacy, Numeracy and ICT tests online before getting the QTS. These have been abolished now I believe?

It should not have taken you 6 years to finish!

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I'm doing a PGCE right now and had to do a numeracy test. Didn't need to do the literacy one as I'm an English teacher but I needed over 90% in a timed numeracy test.

Phineyj · 09/02/2025 11:54

Did you have to do it in a driving test centre @ShowOfHands or is it online now?

I had to take mine in 2012 alongside people doing hazard perception tests. It was a bizarre experience!

sashh · 09/02/2025 12:05

Meredusoleil · 09/02/2025 11:30

I also finished my PGCE 20 years ago in 2004.

I got my QTS straight away and then had to do one year of induction within a 5 year limit. Which I completed in 2005.

I also had to sit basic Literacy, Numeracy and ICT tests online before getting the QTS. These have been abolished now I believe?

It should not have taken you 6 years to finish!

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Not abolished but now you take them before you start your PGCE.

Meredusoleil · 09/02/2025 12:07

sashh · 09/02/2025 12:05

Not abolished but now you take them before you start your PGCE.

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Good!

ShowOfHands · 09/02/2025 12:23

Phineyj · 09/02/2025 11:54

Did you have to do it in a driving test centre @ShowOfHands or is it online now?

I had to take mine in 2012 alongside people doing hazard perception tests. It was a bizarre experience!

I did mine online but some of my fellow students did them in a test centre. It was really intense. Thankfully, if you get under 90%, you don't fail but have to take compulsory extra lessons in key skills and then retake later in the year.

Original poster
everychildmatters · 09/02/2025 13:35

@sashh Obviously didn't take me 6 years to get my PGCE!
4 years - Psychology degree (BSc Hons). Had to be a minimum of a 2:1 back then to go on to PGCE but I understand this has since been lowered).
1 year - PGCE
1 year - qualifying year in school before QTS awarded.
As another poster said as part of qualifying back then you took the aptitude tests in Maths, English and IT towards the end of the course, but believe sensibly this now comes earlier?
So six years of study in total.

OP posts:
notnorman · 09/02/2025 13:53

Piggywaspushed · 09/02/2025 10:28

I didn't actually do any theory of learning on my full time uni based PGCE many many moons ago. But what I did get was four contrasting placements (including a primary school and a school for the Deaf) which helped me to decide what kind of school I could see myself in , lots of time to discuss approaches to teaching texts and schemes of work (thus giving me the confidence to plan my onw), an opportunity to think about and practise teaching drama (often landed on English trainees) and a second subject. and learn about form tutoring We had lots and lots of mentoring and feedback and support , both in school placements and at the university - and we built camaraderie. Plus , I still got to be a student and have fun, and wind down and stuff. I was only 20. Teacher training seems so serious, intense and driven now, comparatively. As is teaching.

I still ended up teaching MFL in my first school - but I had German lit in my degree and a fair amount of misguided confidence! On the Facebook group for my main subject people are always requesting full SOWs, lessons , ppts, marked work, moderation. It's like teachers have lost the skills of planning and lost any sense of autonomy. Some of these appear to be unqualified teachers or non specialists shoehorned in. I think a lot of this is the quality of in school training where students follow a departmental scheme and never have a chance to think for themselves.

I think we have to remember whilst quibbling over whether people have A levels in a subject, or even degrees that there are quite a lot of GCSE and A level subjects where the A level might not have existed when teachers themselves were at school and where there are no or very few teacher training routes (psychology, economics, sociology, media, film, medical science, child development all spring to mind). But I do know that getting someone in from the 'film industry' to try and teach GCSE or A level often ends in unmitigated chaos.

Yes there was no schemes of work in my placement schools nor in my first school. It was very much 'do them yourself and work to your strengths'. No text books neither. It's definitely a skill, a muscle you have to learn and exercise regularly.
I guess ai will do that in the future.

Silversixpenny · 05/04/2025 12:33

Yep, we have a cover supervisor "teaching" science and another down on the staff listbas "lead teacher" of her subject on the school staff list with no degree, no teaching qualification. "She can cook".

Lazytiger · 06/04/2025 12:11

Fitzcarraldo353 · 07/02/2025 14:02

It would be the end of the Teach First model if unqualified teachers couldn't teach (not that some teachers would mourn that).

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Not really as they are training from day 1 towards the QTS, that they get at the end of the year. They also do a month before they hit the classroom on ‘how to teach’ and are put into schools that are set up (or should be) to support their training. They also get lots (too much maybe!) of support from Teach First and the university they are enrolled in for the PGCE/PGDE they do alongside the QTS.
Very different to other, throw someone with a couple of A levels in front of a class and call them an ‘unqualified teacher’, routes.

I thought the government were ok with unqualified teachers as long as they were training / working toward QTS, and not just teaching assistants being taken advantage of.

Lazytiger · 06/04/2025 12:28

MrsHamlet · 08/02/2025 10:21

The TF trainee I had last year only had a GCSE grade C in the subject he was training to teach. He had no relevant A levels or degree.

TF do not have a procedure to fail trainees. As far as I know, he is resitting this year. He was a lovely man but utterly utterly unsuited to teaching of any kind.

All many of these providers are interested in is the money.

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Teach First is a middle man. They find you a school and support your training but you are employed by the school. It is the school that hire and fire. Teach First hand out the QTS and the University the PGCE/PGDE. Sounds like Teach First haven’t handed out the QTS but the school are so desperate to have a teacher, willing to teach this subject in their school, they would rather hang onto him and give him another chance.

Lazytiger · 06/04/2025 12:36

endlesscraziness · 08/02/2025 15:32

My friend was an unqualified teacher last year. She was given the role because a qualified teacher was so bad they had to advise her leave or be fired. They'd observed my friend teaching the class as a higher TA and the difference in behaviour was stark. It was fully supported by parents who saw a huge change in their children for the better. The school are now paying for her degree and PGCE.

I think it's incredibly shortsighted for there not to be a route to primary school teaching without a degree. I'm doing my MSc at the moment without having a BSc based off of professional experience, there should be a similar route for TA's. I'd far rather have my friend in that role than someone that did a random degree and then a PGCE with no experience with children.

There is a route for this. The main issue is usually the TA not having passed maths and/or English GCSE or having overseas qualifications that aren’t recognised. The other big issue is they don’t want to do all the admin and planning and are happy just being with the kids.
Otherwise they certainly can do on the job teaching/training and get QTS.

MrsHamlet · 06/04/2025 13:36

Lazytiger · 06/04/2025 12:28

Teach First is a middle man. They find you a school and support your training but you are employed by the school. It is the school that hire and fire. Teach First hand out the QTS and the University the PGCE/PGDE. Sounds like Teach First haven’t handed out the QTS but the school are so desperate to have a teacher, willing to teach this subject in their school, they would rather hang onto him and give him another chance.

Edited
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Not true: he was not employed by my school. He was sent here on a training placement. We were not desperate to keep him at all because he was simply unsuited to the role.

He left before the end of the placement when it became clear that a) he was in no way meeting the standards and b) TF had to mechanism to fail him for that.

Had he not left voluntarily, we would have withdrawn the placement.

Changed18 · 06/04/2025 13:41

Bit worried about numeracy test now, @ShowOfHands. I’m doing a PGCE in September and no one has mentioned doing one. I do have a C in GCSE equivalent maths though and am hoping that means I don’t need to…

Lazytiger · 06/04/2025 16:03

MrsHamlet · 06/04/2025 13:36

Not true: he was not employed by my school. He was sent here on a training placement. We were not desperate to keep him at all because he was simply unsuited to the role.

He left before the end of the placement when it became clear that a) he was in no way meeting the standards and b) TF had to mechanism to fail him for that.

Had he not left voluntarily, we would have withdrawn the placement.

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Are you calling me a liar? Teach First do not employ people. It is made very clear that you are employed by the school not Teach First. Why would Teach First pay for a school to have a teacher. They are a training charity not a funding body. Part of the process is that Teach First find you a placement at a school, after the summer (or autumn) institute. You send out a video of yourself and your CV and they contact schools to see if anyone wants to employee you. No placement, no job and no training. They need a school to employ you.
As part of the training you are only sent on a two week alternative school placement (plus one day at a primary if you are secondary and assume vice versa). That is it. Rest of the time you are teaching at the school that pays your wages.

MrsHamlet · 06/04/2025 16:13

Lazytiger · 06/04/2025 16:03

Are you calling me a liar? Teach First do not employ people. It is made very clear that you are employed by the school not Teach First. Why would Teach First pay for a school to have a teacher. They are a training charity not a funding body. Part of the process is that Teach First find you a placement at a school, after the summer (or autumn) institute. You send out a video of yourself and your CV and they contact schools to see if anyone wants to employee you. No placement, no job and no training. They need a school to employ you.
As part of the training you are only sent on a two week alternative school placement (plus one day at a primary if you are secondary and assume vice versa). That is it. Rest of the time you are teaching at the school that pays your wages.

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No I'm not calling you a liar.

I'm telling you that we did not employ this person. He was on a training placement on a Teach First course.

I have no idea who - if anyone - was paying him. But it wasn't us.

Lazytiger · 07/04/2025 10:39

MrsHamlet · 06/04/2025 16:13

No I'm not calling you a liar.

I'm telling you that we did not employ this person. He was on a training placement on a Teach First course.

I have no idea who - if anyone - was paying him. But it wasn't us.

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So you agree someone must have been paying him? I’ve outlined what Teach First is (training provider) and isn’t (an employer of school teachers). So either he was on a 2 week observational placement at your school, and that is why he left, he was a Teach First trainee paid by your school or he wasn’t a Teach First trainee. It’s got to be one of the three options!

Needlenardlenoo · 07/04/2025 10:52

@Changed18I had to do one despite having A level Maths and a degree in a quantitative subject! I got a book from the library on how to prep for numeracy tests and did all the past papers. You can definitely practice and get better.

Maddy70 · 07/04/2025 12:27

There have been unqualified "teachers" teaching your children for years! Ever since the academy status was brought in.
There is a huge shortage of qualified teachers so they need to fill places

EnnyIssues · 07/04/2025 14:04

@Maddy70 You haven't read the full thread have you? LA maintained schools are also allowed to employ unqualified staff when there is no alternative. Academies only differ in that they are allowed to employ unqualified staff for other reasons, similar to private schools, e.g. because they are very skilled and/or have experience of teaching in another system.

In practice, the percentage of unqualified teachers in academies is only very slightly higher than the percentage in LA maintained schools. The figures and links are earlier in the thread if you look.

MrsHamlet · 07/04/2025 14:13

Lazytiger · 07/04/2025 10:39

So you agree someone must have been paying him? I’ve outlined what Teach First is (training provider) and isn’t (an employer of school teachers). So either he was on a 2 week observational placement at your school, and that is why he left, he was a Teach First trainee paid by your school or he wasn’t a Teach First trainee. It’s got to be one of the three options!

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No I don't agree that someone was paying him. I've no idea who - if anyone - was but we absolutely we were not.

It was not a two week placement.
He was on a Teach First programme.

Fitzcarraldo353 · 07/04/2025 19:34

Lazytiger · 06/04/2025 16:03

Are you calling me a liar? Teach First do not employ people. It is made very clear that you are employed by the school not Teach First. Why would Teach First pay for a school to have a teacher. They are a training charity not a funding body. Part of the process is that Teach First find you a placement at a school, after the summer (or autumn) institute. You send out a video of yourself and your CV and they contact schools to see if anyone wants to employee you. No placement, no job and no training. They need a school to employ you.
As part of the training you are only sent on a two week alternative school placement (plus one day at a primary if you are secondary and assume vice versa). That is it. Rest of the time you are teaching at the school that pays your wages.

Show quote history

Teach First started a SCITT programme last year - not a 'high potential ' ITT route but a regular SCITT. Maybe he was on that.

Fitzcarraldo353 · 07/04/2025 19:50

Also TF trainees do still do an additional school experience (alternative keystage etc) so could have been one of those placements.