Unqualified Teachers

[everychildmatters]

Why is there not complete outrage re the above? I'd rather my daughter not be "taught" full-time by someone who potentially does not need one formal qualification to their name.
I'm glad I walked out of teaching profession last year after 20 years in.
Enough is enough.

I cannot even generalise on TAs. We have some excellent TAs in our school and they are essential when we have newly qualified teachers in, far more actual experience and as long as they all work well together, it ends up fine.

Im an 'unqualified' teacher in an SEN school. The reality of this is that I worked my socks off for a degree, worked my way up from a health care assistant in the school I work in, my class have made outstanding progress and I have been refered to as the best teacher my TA has ever worked for along with getting amazing feedback from parents. I work damn hard and do the same job as the 'qualified' teachers for a lot less money (exactly the same ). I will be doing my QTS eventually as the school will pay for me to do it. Do i think it will make me a better teacher? Nope

FFS.

If they want to learn on the job how to be a teacher, then that's called teacher training.

Unqualified means they don't have QTS.

It does not necessarily mean they don't have adequate qualifications.

I was unqualified but had a subject specific degree, professional qualifications and experience in that specific subject and also PGCE in post 16 education as well as educational experience in several different sectors including being a University lecturer.

I was anything but unqualified to teach that subject.

Had I stayed longer I would have gone for QTLS status.

@ThatGiddyFawn If you believe you are doing exactly the same work as a qualified teaxher for far less money (bet you get paid a pittance) then they are taking the piss out of you.

Well as I was not supernumerary, my absences on the useless training days weren't great for my A level students.

Visiting other schools is always worthwhile ime. Spending a day listening to someone spout ancient bollocks about Vygotsky, less so!

To be fair there was one session about vocal health, which schools could definitely think more about.

The thing that really surprised me about teacher training was there was no subject content at all. And apparently it was fine for me to be assessed by a succession of people who'd never taught or even studied my subject.

I realise that probably doesn't happen in Maths.

Also I should probably disclose that the training organisation got a requires improvement Ofsted some years later...

I think that @Araminta1003's DC probably went to a similar school to the one where I trained.

The (external) trainers were really prejudiced against trainees from grammar and independent schools. Those of us from those settings couldn't ask questions or join in discussions without being mocked or belittled. Especially the session about SEND.

As as result I had to teach myself how to meet the needs of academically able students with ASD as according to the trainers they don't exist 🙄. Also apparently students in those settings never have behavioural, family or health issues. Who knew?!

I dont believe I do the same job, I DO the same job. I do get paid a lot less and this is the only reason im willing to get QTS as my wage is the only difference between me and the qualified teachers in my school. As for them taking the piss, I dont feel they are. Im doing a job I love that I possibly wouldnt be able to do in another school due to the new requirements of being qualified. So swings and roundabouts really.

How do you know? I don’t give a shit about ofsted-they’ve seen me about 12 times. I don’t agree with their fucking stupid framework that wants us to teach the same way, at the same time (a la academies). I do care that my kids enjoy my lessons and also make progress.

“FFS.
If they want to learn on the job how to be a teacher, then that's called teacher training.”

No @noblegiraffe - they did not do the full QTS. Not everyone wants to do it. Some are early retirees from other professions, for example. They are in teaching with a 10 year view. Not sure why that is a problem if they are competent in teaching the content and bringing the best out of teens? Why the added bureaucracy for all?

For a start they are paid on the unqualified teacher pay scale so they are earning less than they would do if they qualified.

But how do schools know that they are competent in teaching the content and bringing the best out of teens? Just chucking them in a class and seeing how they get on isn't particular fair on the kids in that class is it? I've seen enough people in a classroom who are not at all competent to know it's not even slightly a given that they will be.

You don't rate Vygotsky's zones of proximal development and the idea of scaffolding?

The thing that really surprised me about teacher training was there was no subject content at all

That's rather what your degree was for?

@ThatGiddyFawn You believe you're doing EXACTLY the same job as others who are earning at the very, very least double what you are, and you're genuinely OK with that?

@noblegiraffe I understand why you are looking to protect your profession and agree that the creep of unqualified/associate roles into all professions is designed to undermine them and keep wages down. I have seen it in my previous profession.

However blaming people who accept unqualified teaching roles is looking at the wrong person - blame your SLT for accepting them/ actively recruiting them (but in the end they need a human in front of the children)

For what it's worth the subject I taught had been previously taught by a rolling range of QTS who were not subject experts and resented being pushed to teach what they viewed as a 'lesser' subject. Their contempt for the subject was clear and there was widespread malpractice in the assessment of it in order to produce better results than would otherwise exist. Some of this was due to the pressure on teachers for results.

I viewed it differently. The post 16 students would be taking up places on courses where integrity was absolutely vital. That they had been through an inadequate and flawed assessment process meant that they did not have the skills for the course they were given a place on. Some lacked integrity and were happy to be 'helped' in a way that was frankly cheating.

QTS does not mean automatically better than unqualified teachers, particularly in vocational courses.

The best teacher my child has ever had was 'unqualified'. She taught as a teacher in another country but did not have qualified teacher status in this country. It was a huge amount of work to become "qualified", which changed absolutely nothing about her ability to do the job.

Ahh its no where near double. Not even close. My current salary is about 2k a year less than a NQT in my school and thats only due to them getting a SEN top up. Im not at the top of my pay scale yet but yes the earning potential is bigger with QTS and the gap will widen eventually if I dont do my QTS.

“But how do schools know that they are competent in teaching the content and bringing the best out of teens? Just chucking them in a class and seeing how they get on isn't particular fair on the kids in that class is it? I've seen enough people in a classroom who are not at all competent to know it's not even slightly a given that they will be.”

Because in this case I was talking about two top performing grammars so leadership never placed them straight into Year 10/11 or Sixth Form but first into Years 7-9 and observed end of year academic test and results and if they were excellent and got great feedback, they were then moved into exam years, where they did bring out the best in the students, quite often due to their extensive subject knowledge from top universities (even if it was years ago). Also at A level some of these people coming from other professions is absolutely what the kids need to inspire them further down the line and to help them start understanding the professions they themselves may be going into.

Absolutely agree, Piggy - I’ve had the same experience in the past two years. The impact on HoDs and other staff in terms of picking up the marking, setting the cover, filling in the learning gaps down the line and dealing with the increased enquiries and complaints from parents has driven a number of my colleagues to other schools or out of the profession. The general public has no idea how many unqualified ‘teachers’ are working in schools. They don’t realise how cover supervisors and TAs ( and not always HTLAs) are covering longer term staff absences or unfilled posts.

Most unqualified teachers have a degree in the subject they are teaching. Conversely not all qualified teachers have a degree in the subject they are teaching. Depending on the person the former may be better than the latter. Its not something I can be outraged about on such a generalised basis.

If it were a teacher teaching my own kids the quality if the teaching they are actually getting is what would concern me.

Most unqualified teachers have a degree in the subject they are teaching.

What on earth makes you think that?

And the additional load on people like me. My job includes supporting staff who are struggling. I am given some remission from timetable for this but to meet, observe, coach, feedback to each of them, every week, is a huge additional load... and the vast majority of that has to happen during the day.

Bless the naivety.

We have two at the moment. One has no degree at all, and is teaching science. The other has a degree, but not in the subject they're teaching,

Because in this case I was talking about two top performing grammars

Ah, I see. I wonder how they would have fared at your average comp.

I don’t know @noblegiraffe - but at the end of the day, as parents we have to trust the leadership team to select the right staff for our kids. In our case, the boys’ grammar was full of boys who could already do GCSE maths papers at the beginning of year 8 and needed extra stretch in Year 11 and were all very comfortably going to get 9s in the top few sets. So the demographic and the academic needs of the students are going to be different.
A PE teacher with QTS and an A level in Maths was not going to be a better fit than the ex banker with a PhD in Maths that they ended up with. Leadership should be able to select the right staff for the needs of their students and the classes they will teach.

It's very rarely about "selection" of staff who are unqualified. It's about a body being in the room.