Primary school in deprived area

[WaryDeer]

DS has started at the local primary school this year.

The staff are well meaning and kind but I'm a little worried we messed up in choosing this school. I sense that they are catering to a minimum standard but not resourced to facilitate children reaching their full potential beyond that minimum.

To give more context, we live in an urban area characterised by high immigration and transience. Approaching 100% ethnic minority and English as an Additional Language. The fellow parents are pleasant enough at the gates, but they tend to cluster into groups based on home country language, and in many cases are recent arrivals to the UK with the rudimentary level of English that comes with that. They also move on frequently with about 35% transience (double the UK average I believe). DS has friends in the classroom but no mixing outside of school.

I'm starting to think we've made a mistake by sending DS to this school. When we sent him there we were thinking it would be nice for to grow up amongst diversity and good for his social development, and that we could make up any educational shortfall relative to more affluent areas with tutoring and support at home. We were then planning to move to a more traditionally "nice" area in time for secondary school - possibly even catchment for one of the grammar schools that exist not too far away.

Hand on heart, if money were no objective then I don't think we'd have stayed living where we do. But we can't change the past. I'm just wondering what to do now. All being well we could afford to move to a "nicer" area in a couple of years.

1. Would it make sense to move schools as soon as possible?
2. What can we do to make the most of the situation?
3. I've become a parent governor. I don't expect to have any power as such, but is there anything I can leverage in the role to make the best of things?

You clearly think you're better than the rest of the families in your DCs school. What you’ve described is very similar to the school I teach at. Last year, 4 children got bursaries for our local Private secondary school, this year another 4 have applied and could well get in. All EAL, refugee families. We also have around 10% children with EHCPs, which is really high - 2/3 per class. We love our families, we think they deserve the best, we don’t want people sending their children to our school in order to expose them to those less fortunate than themselves.

Schools tend to focus their teaching towards the needs to the majority of their intake.

If they have a lot of children in reception who don't know English then as well as the usual teaching them to get changed for PE and developing social skills and concentration they also need to teach the children English.

Your child already knows English.

In an area where most of the children already know English the school doesn't need to teach it and can move quite fast (too fast in some people's eyes) with phonics and writing and maths.

So your child is an outlier in his classroom. You could ask for additional extension activities. They are unlikely to change much of the classroom teaching as it meets the needs of most of the children.

So it seems like you are caught between two different objectives:

1. Your son's need for an education that as you say enables him to reach his full potential beyond the minimum. and
2. Your own desire or belief that " it would be nice for to grow up amongst diversity and good for his social development"

So I guess the question is what is more important to him and not you.

Also in your quest for diversity, firstly there doesn't seem to be much of it with "parents clustering into groups based on home language " and no mixing outside of school. If anything it seems more segregated than schools with say a much lower migrant intake.

Secondly what exactly are the diversity benefits you think he will gain?

Have you used AI to write your post, it is a very complicated read?

I'm connecting that with you talking to other parents, do you modify your language, if needed (recognising not always as many other ethnicities speak English fluently).

Perhaps simplify your language if required, to build relationships with local parents.

I think you're reading between the lines. It's not that I think we're better than them.

What I think is that:

• transience makes life hard for teachers
• I was taken aback by the low level of English amongst the parents (in this sense, I think I'm "better", yes, but not in a moral sense; just a practical one)
• there is less of a melting pot than I hoped, and more racial/linguistic cliquiness

All of which I fear is detrimental to my child's education. Nothing to do with anyone being better or worse as such.

Having worked in a variety of schools, I think the main issue is going to be DS’s potential friendship group. He’d have a better social life if there were classmates he could hang out with after school, although it’s good that he’s got friends in school.

The teaching should be aimed at the top students, with sufficient challenge and extension work being available. If DS is academically able, he will be expected to work mostly independently, so the fact that some other pupils need more support shouldn’t impact him too much, assuming the behaviour allows the teachers to actually teach.

As a parent governor, you will get to see what targets are being met and what the schools priorities are, though tbh, the Head rather than the governors runs the school and makes most of the educational decisions .

Personally, I’d move DS to another school if that can be done conveniently, mostly because of the mixing out of school issue.

Thanks. This is logical. Do you think that it is likely to balance itself out over time as the EAL aspect fades in relevance? In the higher years of the school, I don't notice any language issues with the kids. They speak perfect English by the time they leave.

they are catering to a minimum standard but not resourced to facilitate children reaching their full potential beyond that minimum.

Welcome to state schools. You'd be lucky to find any state school that is resourced beyond the minimum these days.

I would put "traditional" education above the values of diversity if put in direct tension with each other. But I do see a value in being exposed to other cultures, languages, religions etc. Just a simple fact of the world that it's made up of all sorts and I don't want him to grow up insular or indeed feeling alienated from the rapidly changing demographics of the UK

No AI involved. I'd say I write quite differently to how I speak. It's possible that even my spoken language is not as accessible as it could be, though. Will take that feedback on board and try and be more conscious about this. Thank you.

All very fair points. I think we will look seriously at moving as you say. It's hard for me to compare with my own upbringing, which was so different to what I'm providing to my own children. My memory of my own (state) schools is that they were much better than DS's school, including parents being way more involved with each other and the school, but the circumstances are so different.

You could try seeing if there any spaces at other schools that you feel would suit your child more? Spaces do come up at great schools all the time, be on their wait lists and you might get lucky.

Well, I think the benefits of your ds being in a multicultural environment still stand.

My advice would be not to panic and don't think of it as an all or nothing approach.

Firstly, I'd try and identify specifically what it is that you are concerned about for your DS and think about how to address it.

Relationships outside school - could he do Beavers, drama group, sport class of some sort to build up relationships. Does he have a particular school friend he would like to invite for a playdate. Maybe you could make the first move in this and maybe school could help with communicating with the other child's family if English levels are a problem.

Educational enrichment? I can understand that a school that is so stretched with ESL students and a constantly changing roll may not have the capacity to stretch brighter students as much as some others. What can you do to enrich things? As a tutor for many years I'd suggest the following:
Eat as a family as often as possible. You'd be surprised at how much children's vocabulary and understanding of the world grows when they are habitually in mixed adult/child conversation. It is the regular day to day interaction that makes the difference.

Keep reading to him from a wide variety of books both fact and fiction. Again the amount of vocabulary, grammar etc that children absorb from this is amazing.
Both of these, done habitually will be making such a difference although if you don't see the contrast with children who don't do these things you might not realise.
Then of course there are the traditional enrichment activities. Take him to museums and historical sites, age appropriate plays, cultural events (Christmas carol service or harvest festival, Chinese new year parade, remembrance Sunday event, family friendly pride events, parkrun or other sport event, etc).
On top of this make sure he has opportunities for spatial and mathematical learning (weighing and measuring for baking, lego and hama beads, scooting and bike riding, water play in bath - he needs containers and jugs to pour and get an instinctive feel for volume and capacity- , play games involving dice and numbers. Have toy till and coins so he can learn currency and adding subtracting amounts, do jigsaws etc)

You may of course do this anyway and it may be enough.

If you do think you'd like to move school, take it slowly. Look around at other schools. Find out about whether they are over or under subscribed in his year. Is there somewhere you'd like him to go which wouldn't involve you moving house? I think you have most of key stage 1 to decide about this, particularly if you are doing the enrichment activities described above.

If you do think you'd like to go for grammar schools, take time to do research. Look at their admission criteria. Do they prioritise certain postcodes or distance from the school or are places just offered to the top so many passes at 11+
Very few, if any state schools do specific preparation for 11+ and the children do need to be ahead ( eg 11+ often covers all of year 6 maths content, even though the exams are taken at the start of year 6 and verbal/ non verbal reasoning are not types of test they will normally meet so practice is advisable. I'd be thinking of some general enhancement tutoring from year 4 (consolidating maths, making sure foundations are solid etc) and specific 11+ tutoring in year 5. You will probably need to do at least the year 5 tutoring whatever school he is in for the reasons I have outlined.

I teach at a school that is outstanding and too bloody right we are. We work our arses off for our intake.

But we would not be outstanding in a different catchment and it is fine to recognise that. As such, my children won’t attend the school I teach at and I wouldn’t recommend us to my friends .

they are catering to a minimum standard but not resourced to facilitate children reaching their full potential beyond that minimum

This. DD goes to a demographically mixed but (on paper) high achieving primary with great SATs results - in practice it still caters to the bare minimum due to a combination of lack of resources and a laser focus on getting as many pupils as possible to reach 'expected' levels. Able DC who are working at, or have the potential to work at Greater Depth are still neglected (a deliberate strategy by the school which I only know about because I'm a governor there). League tables are king. So in that respect the grass is not necessarily greener elsewhere; most state primaries are very much pitched to the average (within their own school context).

In your situation I'd personally move your DS (or move location) ASAP, mainly due to to the potential social issues as outlined by PPs upthread. There will be an overarching 'school culture' and it will be very difficult for him to thrive if he doesn't feel part of this culture. Same as why white British families largely no longer apply to the 98% South Asian super selective grammar schools near where I am in London - diversity should be genuine diversity of background, culture and thought. I get what your mean about the 'clusters' of different ethnic groups - we have the same in our primary, and in general friendships out of school do tend to shake down along ethnic lines, with certain groups never attending parties, not be amenable to play dates etc.

Finally as a governor you will be party to data/information that other parents do not see, which can help with future planning, plugging academic gaps for your DS etc, but since governance is a strategic oversight role, rather than a hands-on practical one, it will be very difficult for you to shape or alter the ethos and priorities of the school - that's very much a job for the Head and the staff on the ground.

I think I’d move schools in your situation. You’re not happy with the set up, it sounds cliquey, theres not much diversity really of all the other children are form the same ethnic minorities and there’s a low level of English which won’t be helping academically as teachers have to work to the needs of the majority in the class. For what it’s worth we live in a nice area, dd is in reception at a lovely primary and there’s still what I feel is a good mix of ethnicities and cultures. It’s nice that the children learn from each other, they’re celebrating Chinese new year this week and one of the girls is going to be bringing in homemade treats to celebrate.

My memory of my own (state) schools is that they were much better than DS's school, including parents being way more involved with each other and the school, but the circumstances are so different.

So is mine. Also much more creative, active and 'fun' - lots more practical work/topics, way more Arts input, more outdoorsy stuff (nature walks, nature table in class etc). But that's down to much wider changes in the primary curriculum, not specific to any one school (although there are still some with maverick Heads who are willing to swim against the tide). DD's school experience is basically Death by PowerPoint, and she's only in Year 2!

There was also, I agree, more cohesion among parents, probably in part because there was more homogeneity and in part because parents (largely mums) were much less pushed for time than they are today. I know I've been taken aback by the lack of interest in the actual education side of school by parents in my own DD's cohort - any engagement seem to be based solely around the quality of wraparound care and whether the children are warm enough/adequately fed/able to drink enough water. It's a mixed but overall fairly middle class area, which is why I'm surprised at the lack of broader interest.

As for your writing style (as critiqued above) I found it perfectly clear, eloquent and not remotely suggestive of any AI input!

Have you made an effort to facilitate mixing outside of school? If not, I would start by inviting some of your DS's friends round or to do an activity.

I suggest you think back from secondary and consider moving him to a primary where a reasonable number continue on to the kind of secondary you want. Maybe move him at Juniors/year 3. Time and demographics are on your side. An in-year place will come up before year 3 most likely.

Hi OP. We are in the same situation. We’ve considered moving but we are in a great secondary school catchment so don’t want to risk that. What it comes down to is the school itself. The school is excellent, the teachers are great, it’s safe and friendly and there are lots of opportunities. Yes, it is not the social scene I had hoped for my child (and for me!) but he is very happy.

I spent the last couple of years panicking but we’ve got to year three now where the work ramps up a bit and I can see that ds is being stretched. He attends lots of clubs and after school activities as well as non school sports clubs and we are ensuring he develops a friendship network outside of school and exposing him as lots of other opportunities.

i think if you like the school, trust the head and you think the teaching is good then your child will thrive. And your child will benefit from the different cultures and languages around them.

If your child is in a school and you aren't happy with the academics it's relatively easy to deal with this in infants.

Use reading eggs, buy a reading scheme, make them read every day, okay maths games with them, get them to write a diary in the holidays,

It is harder to do at juniors and very hard at secondary.

If you are even thinking about aiming for a grammar this is the wrong school to be at. You want your child in a cohort of kids where the teaching is aimed at him.

I'd aim to move him for the end of year 2.

And look at the ofsted reports and speak to parents for the new school.

If OP's in an area with diversity then the secondary schools will also be diverse (at least, more diverse than in other areas - I think the UK's approx 9% BME isn't it, but with considerable variation).

Hopefully little primary DC just take whatever they find themselves in as their normal.

I did slightly relate to the OP's DC as my parents placed my sister and I in a school entirely made up of working class kids from the local area and we just could not break in socially. Although we're still friends years later with the only two other middle class kids we were marooned with. I did not understand any of this at the time of course, just got fed up of being told I spoke weird/was weird!

My children attended 5 Primary Schools due to usvei g a Military family. A school can be good, but wrong for a child. There one school I know of in miltary circles where they get a massive intake every Jan and September, and these children stay for at most one academic year. Its said to be brilliant for these mitary children, but permanent residents avoid it as it has no stability for the children who are there long term. They go to the school in the next village.

The school mine went to that coincided with the 2020/21 lockdowns was another example. It was the only school with places when we arrived. It did a fantastic job of making sure every pupil had access to a tablet and worksheets, food parcels for those on FSM or above the cut off but struggling, translated resources for parents who didn't speak English, and had over 50% of pupils in during the second lock down. However they did nothing, due to lack of time, for anyone needing extension work, or with parents who could teach the children themselves. Meanwhile other local schools had full programmes of live online lessons for example (plus any Military children in school us we had dodgy Internet connection on the base)
Brilliant school, wrong setting for our family.

@WaryDeer
"I would put "traditional" education above the values of diversity if put in direct tension with each other. But I do see a value in being exposed to other cultures, languages, religions etc. Just a simple fact of the world that it's made up of all sorts and I don't want him to grow up insular or indeed feeling alienated from the rapidly changing demographics of the UK"

This is why inclusion is more important than diversity. As Thomas Sowell pointed out in his book ""Race and Culture ", there is no point in having diversity targets for university entry if in the canteen the black, white and Asian students all sit apart in their own cliques (out of choice).

This is voluntary segregation and just because it's voluntary it doesn't make it any less harmful than state imposed segregation such as apartheid or the Jim Crow laws.

The UK demographics are indeed changing and your son will be exposed to other cultures, languages and religions naturally as a UK citizen but also through travel.

@RandomUsernameHere

Have you made an effort to facilitate mixing outside of school? If not, I would start by inviting some of your DS's friends round or to do an activity.

It doesn't sound like the parents mix on the playground.

OP I do think primary school is as much about making friends as academic work. Are there any class parties? Honestly I would have found what you are describing difficult. It’s nice to chat to different people at drop off & it doesn't sound like that is easy to navigate. I don't know that I would sacrifice my son having some social life with friends for ensuring he was mixing with a diverse crowd.