Will parents move to areas closer to Outstanding/Good schools rather than pay VAT

[LadyConfused2024]

Sorry for the long message. This really? Do you think many parents will sell up/rent near a better school and take their kids out of private school rather than pay the VAT fee increase?

These are purely selfish reasons as I want to move and think that house prices are going to go up a lot in areas with good state schools.

Thanks in advamce.

We already have done - made the move before labour won the election (and so did another 5 families in our small prep school with another 4 in DC's class currently looking). Our house has gone up in value by over 15% since the VAT became a reality

Those who do, don't make the move based on Ofsted ratings - we look at the school(s) the children would get into/be eligible to apply for and consider the reputation as a whole. Ofsted are useless

Also we didn't move for OFSTED outstanding schools, rather ones universally recognised to offer a great education, good facilities, good pastoral care and a naice catchment. I don't put much faith in OFSTED tbh.

Private schools have never been a big thing where I am now because the state schools are so good.

You know those schools are very common don’t you?! Did you live in a horrible area before you moved?!

Imagine living somewhere crap so you could afford to send your children to private school 🤯

You are relying on the misconception that private school parents pay for exclusivity or super high achieving schools. The majority of us don't! Those of us that are moving are like you - we want a decent education for our children but for one reason or another, the state sector didn't meet our needs so at the time we chose to pay instead of move house. Expecting us to pay an extra 20% over and above the many thousands we already pay in tax and fees was the final push.

As you acknowledged - the property is also an investment where as VAT is money we will never see again so this decision makes for a better financial outcome.

Maybe some, but not the majority. Because those outstanding/good state schools will still take in kids from a variety of backgrounds and areas with the associated range of behaviour, and many parents use private schools to avoid that.
Also even the best state schools have bigger classes than many private’s and not such good facilities and buildings (not all, but most).

But I do think many private school parents are driven by wanting their kids to mix with the ‘right people’ and also be in a more ‘nurturing’ environment. I suspect they’ll find the extra for VAT.

@AquaPeer in your example, that family would now be paying almost £100k in school fees every year. For families where school fees are now unaffordable, they're not just saving the VAT by switching to state, they're saving the basic fees as well. That's why many families are now considering the switch to state. That family would now be saving £100k per year which more than cover the stamp duty on a £1m house. Unfortunately the VAT is the final straw for many families.

Nope. Lovely area, state schools had a good rep generally, and it was very convenient for work. But like much of London, catchment for secondaries are quite mixed as even the nicest areas have some rough estates neighbouring them. I didn't fancy my child mixing with some of the kids that attend the local state schools.

As mentioned up thread, moving out of London has left us mortgage free in a very nice house, so it wasn't exactly a crap area we sold up from.

It really wasn't about not being able to afford the VAT and fees, i could easily. It's just that I decided that I already paid enough tax so would let the state fund my child's education. If it turns out not to suit them for whatever reason I can always move them to private later.

@LadyConfused2024 yes, private school parents may well decide to move areas in order to access a better state school. It already happens though. It'll now happen more. I know private school families who've done just that in the last year.

I never understand how vocal they are about the VAT being the “final straw” - I presume the “preceding straws” were the enormous amounts by which schools themselves have increased their fees- far outstripping inflation - for the last decade or 2.
And now the 93% have to tolerate them moving to their neighbourhoods and influencing their children 🤨

this is very common though- we ourselves moved out of London for the schools and live in St Albans which is almost exclusively populated by Londoners who have moved for the same reason. We’ve been doing it for decades, I can’t see that people like yourselves will have any more impact

I guess it's just that more of us are doing it. And because we can afford to outbid (we went in above asking) it pushes prices up even more, which makes the areas around the better schools harder to afford and therefore drives inequality further.

Yes of course. People already do. A marginal amount more will join them.

My kids school cost more than that, but even on your figures, from reception to year 13, it can feel worth it to save the original amount plus the VAT.

I don’t think it wil. As above, it’s a marginal amount, and people who can’t afford a few grand of extra fees probably don’t have the outbidding power they like to think.

as an alternative view, I don’t know anyone with children in private school who isn’t just paying the extra VAT.

That's already the case and selfishly keeps and increases the price of my house.

Not so selfishly, it also ensures that state schools in my LA remain open. We have so many spare places and school closures of those unviable, affecting whole communities. 16 school closures in 7 years and counting.

A bonus all round that VAT is added.

Maybe also consider how much extra we have to earn to be able to pay the £16k a year when we are already paying 60% tax. For those of us that pay fees out of our income rather than family trust funds or big inheritances, it simply is not worth it.

You have a pre-conceived idea of private school parents which surprises me when you say you moved for education yourself - most of us are actually very similar to you. We made a different financial choice for our own reasons but I can assure you, it was nothing to do with not wanting our children to mix with children of lower income households.

Err, is it just me, or is an extra £16k a year (out of taxed income) actually quite significant?
It may be that the additional cost of a house in the catchment of great state schools is just as much as the added cost of private education, but the house remains as a tangible asset whilst school fees are gone forever.

@AquaPeer

Our local schools haven't risen above inflation. They are broadly in line with inflation. Plenty of private schools haven't risen above inflation (there have been numerous threads on this). Even where fees have risen above inflation, some families were managing that. They were then managing with increased interest rates and cost of living. A family may have been managing £40k a year for 2 children, but cannot simply find another £10k on top of their other outgoings for the VAT. That's the reality. It's the final straw.

And now the 93% have to tolerate them moving to their neighbourhoods and influencing their children 🤨

Every child has the same right to a state education. It's not a matter of "tolerating" them. Will there be greater demand for the best state schools? Yes of course there will. Will some children who would have otherwise been able to access a great state school now face greater competition for places and possibly now miss out on a place because it's been taken by a previously privately educated child? Absolutely. State grammar heads warned of this before VAT was introduced.

I know quite a few families who have done it and more who are thinking of it. With saving the original amount in fees for multiple children, they do have the outbidding power. It’s not just the VAT.

@DroningLovisa

Err, is it just me, or is an extra £16k a year (out of taxed income) actually quite significant?
It may be that the additional cost of a house in the catchment of great state schools is just as much as the added cost of private education, but the house remains as a tangible asset whilst school fees are gone forever.

Now it's not just you. Unfortunately many people think that a mere 20% is a drop in the ocean and easily affordable by private school parents. The reality is very different. There are many families who simply cannot just find thousands of pounds a year.

A family with 2 children at a school costing £20k a year now needs to find £8k a year more. Finding that out of net income is very difficult, if not impossible, for many families.

There are now lots of parents switching to state at natural transition points (especially at 11) where they wouldn't have done before. There are also families who cannot hang on until the transition point and are moving them now.

The fact that I’ve done it and it’s common is exactly why I don’t think it’s a big deal- the op is indicating we should all be worried about being pushed out of our catchments as house prices explode from the tiny number of private school children whose parents can’t pay VAT- it’s hyperbole.

@PlayThatSong

I know quite a few families who have done it and more who are thinking of it. With saving the original amount in fees for multiple children, they do have the outbidding power. It’s not just the VAT.

Exactly this. I know lots switching at 11 especially. The local grammar catchment distance has shrunk a lot over the last 2 years and people are already complaining. Private school parents have a greater ability to outbid on a house in catchment, or rent for a while before application.

It's not always an easy option. The catchment area for the nearest Outstanding/Good primary school
was 49m down from 100m when we bought the house. Sibling preference, single form entry. We had to do private nursery anyway as they didn't have one so never moved DD1. Pollution levels in our 2nd closest London state option were off the charts. Good school but a high percentage of kids with or developing respiratory issues.
In 10 yrs the cost differential is off the charts though. I wish my salary was going up this fast.

As I said, I know 5 families from our school alone who made this move before last September so they were in their new place before current secondary school applications started. Add on another 4 in DC's class who are planning to (not yet applying for secondary). None have had issues with affordability of property, it is a huge saving when not paying secondary fees.

This is the tip of the iceberg, many many more will not send private or move at natural transition points. No it wont be an explosion of house prices but they will increase more than they otherwise would have in some areas. There will also be higher competition for selective state school places from private school pupils and some who would previously have got in, will lose out. The state will be funding £8k per year for each of these pupil's education where they previously paid 0.

As others have stated this already happens. This will only work for those going into reception or y7, other years will already be full.