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Original poster

Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2

990 replies

ICouldBeVioletSky · 01/01/2025 20:05

Starting a second thread as the first one is still very busy, albeit it's veered off in a few directions...

Original article

https://www.thetimes.com/article/e6465c9e-d462-48cb-a73e-74480059a1f3?shareToken=05bf599cd4a2376fe3ce83cdce607100

OP posts:
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44
Araminta1003 · 09/02/2025 15:53

@GoldVermillion - some of them are no longer considering British university either. US or European university instead. There is no denying the current brain drain. It is an actual fact? As we have over reliance on under 800k taxpayers these far left policies are incredibly dangerous for all of us.

Boohoo76 · 09/02/2025 15:57

GoldVermillion · 09/02/2025 15:51

So you aren't one of the squeezed middle scraping together the money for your SEND child who simply can't afford the 20 percent extra, that apparently dominate concerns over this policythis thread? You just don't want to? Even though you will then potentially have to pay thousands and thousands extra for uni? Ok.

Show quote history

I never said that I was but I do have lots of empathy for people in that position because I know many people like that. I have changed jobs twice over the past three years to counteract the huge increase in outgoings that we as a family have faced. However, that’s not as straight forward for my police officer, teacher, social worker etc friends that all use private schools.

I may end up paying increased uni fees but I can save £60k per year in tax and NI plus the VAT on school fees. And that’s just me. DH can move his business quite easily and save huge amounts of tax too.

Boohoo76 · 09/02/2025 16:04

Araminta1003 · 09/02/2025 15:53

@GoldVermillion - some of them are no longer considering British university either. US or European university instead. There is no denying the current brain drain. It is an actual fact? As we have over reliance on under 800k taxpayers these far left policies are incredibly dangerous for all of us.

Rightly or wrongly, I feel attacked. No personal allowance, no savings interest allowance, VAT on school fees even though I’m saving the taxpayer shit loads of money, IHT on my pension fund, tax on my private medical insurance and the annual full health MOT that my employer provides (including a mammogram and smear) even though this takes pressure off the NHS….And then I get attacked by my own family for having the audacity to earn more than them even though I subsidise my OAP dad.

Araminta1003 · 09/02/2025 16:14

@Boohoo76 - it will be better if people like you start getting involved politically to change the crazy system we currently have that makes zero sense. Part of the situation we are in is precisely because talented people with vision have washed their hands off politics completely?

GoldVermillion · 09/02/2025 16:27

Oh for goodness sake. All this misery about being wealthy. So hard done to.

My DH paid over 200k tax a few years ago. He was happy to do so.

Part of being part of a national community and being immensely lucky to be clever, and hard working, and healthy, and in a profession that pays well , is the idea that those who have broader shoulders give more.

As it happens we have a disabled child who is a net taker. Mid 20s, on high level pip, with social care package. He will likely never be able to work more than a few hours a week in a highly adapted role. He will have no private pension. Once we have gone he will rely on the state for support. But high earning DH isn't inherently more valuable as a person.

Yes it's important not to discourage business and innovators and risk takers, and any return to the 90 percent tax rates of the 60s would be stupid. If you feel attacked because despite all the wringing out of you financially that is happening you still earn more take home than your parents, and have enough spare dosh to pay out independent school fees, maybe you might want to reflect that you are doing ok? There's only so many range rovers a person can drive after all.

Boohoo76 · 09/02/2025 16:44

GoldVermillion · 09/02/2025 16:27

Oh for goodness sake. All this misery about being wealthy. So hard done to.

My DH paid over 200k tax a few years ago. He was happy to do so.

Part of being part of a national community and being immensely lucky to be clever, and hard working, and healthy, and in a profession that pays well , is the idea that those who have broader shoulders give more.

As it happens we have a disabled child who is a net taker. Mid 20s, on high level pip, with social care package. He will likely never be able to work more than a few hours a week in a highly adapted role. He will have no private pension. Once we have gone he will rely on the state for support. But high earning DH isn't inherently more valuable as a person.

Yes it's important not to discourage business and innovators and risk takers, and any return to the 90 percent tax rates of the 60s would be stupid. If you feel attacked because despite all the wringing out of you financially that is happening you still earn more take home than your parents, and have enough spare dosh to pay out independent school fees, maybe you might want to reflect that you are doing ok? There's only so many range rovers a person can drive after all.

I never said that I wasn’t doing OK. Where did I say that?!

And I don’t have a fancy car! You’re making a lot of false assumptions.

But the fact is who will pay for people like your DS if too many higher earners leave this country? If you look at other European countries that have decent health and other public services, everyone pays a reasonable amount of tax but people in this country believe that only the “rich” should pay which is why we have this crazy top heavy system. I would quite happily remain in a country where everyone pays a significant amount of tax but there is no suggestion from any political party that we should move to such a model.

GoldVermillion · 09/02/2025 16:54

We don't believe only the rich should pay.
We believe those with more should pay more.

Taxation at 20 percent starts at about 12.5k earnings.
Do you think everyone should pay a flat tax rate whatever they earn? How would you work tax so the wealthiest don't pay more proportionately on part of their earnings?

Image is for a person earning 500k.

Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2
nearlylovemyusername · 09/02/2025 17:04

Boohoo76 · 09/02/2025 16:04

Rightly or wrongly, I feel attacked. No personal allowance, no savings interest allowance, VAT on school fees even though I’m saving the taxpayer shit loads of money, IHT on my pension fund, tax on my private medical insurance and the annual full health MOT that my employer provides (including a mammogram and smear) even though this takes pressure off the NHS….And then I get attacked by my own family for having the audacity to earn more than them even though I subsidise my OAP dad.

Show quote history

I'm pinching myself as you're nearly certainly me (apart from DH and I'm a lower earner than you're) 😂

nearlylovemyusername · 09/02/2025 17:06

GoldVermillion · 09/02/2025 16:54

We don't believe only the rich should pay.
We believe those with more should pay more.

Taxation at 20 percent starts at about 12.5k earnings.
Do you think everyone should pay a flat tax rate whatever they earn? How would you work tax so the wealthiest don't pay more proportionately on part of their earnings?

Image is for a person earning 500k.

Do you understand what you're trying to say? or this entire discussion at all?

It's not about Income Tax or NI. At all

GoldVermillion · 09/02/2025 17:22

nearlylovemyusername · 09/02/2025 17:06

Do you understand what you're trying to say? or this entire discussion at all?

It's not about Income Tax or NI. At all

Show quote history

That is what the person I was talking to, boohoo76, was talking about right here in the post I was responding to:

"But the fact is who will pay for people like your DS if too many higher earners leave this country? If you look at other European countries that have decent health and other public services, everyone pays a reasonable amount of tax but people in this country believe that only the “rich” should pay which is why we have this crazy top heavy system. I would quite happily remain in a country where everyone pays a significant amount of tax but there is no suggestion from any political party that we should move to such a model."

Boohoo76 · 09/02/2025 17:23

GoldVermillion · 09/02/2025 16:54

We don't believe only the rich should pay.
We believe those with more should pay more.

Taxation at 20 percent starts at about 12.5k earnings.
Do you think everyone should pay a flat tax rate whatever they earn? How would you work tax so the wealthiest don't pay more proportionately on part of their earnings?

Image is for a person earning 500k.

No, I don’t think we should have flat rate tax. Where have I said that?! The problem we have is that we have a proportionally too small group of people paying the majority of tax. That’s why we can’t afford decent public services. I think everyone should pay tax, with a lower 10% rate instead of the nil rate band, and that it gradually works up from there. The stupid tax cliff edges need to be got rid of as they are stagnating the economy. Our model is not working and the only answer people seem to have is to want higher earners to pay more and more which then encourages them to leave the country and the country then loses all their tax!

Araminta1003 · 09/02/2025 17:26

I do not have a problem with a 45% tax rate at a reasonable level but they did lower it and in addition, there are lots of thresholds around the 100k which are completely punitive in terms of loss of childcare and personal allowance etc. Some of the people earning these figures are not even homeowners so I do understand why they would go elsewhere if they are young and allowed to keep more of their salary to enable homeownership. We have a taxation system that is heavily focussed on income especially via PAYE and it is producing all sorts of anomalies.
This VAT on private schools was peddled as a neat wealth tax solution. It appears not to be. More of a deterrent and disincentive and one fears it is exactly the kind of policy which will end up driving even more excellent/drive away. It is just upside down thinking to discourage people from spending on education and framing it as a tax break/purchase of privilege instead. It shows that the proponents have zero understanding of drive and excellence and long term growth.

Araminta1003 · 09/02/2025 17:27

Cliff edges are a problem as well as incentivising people to only earn a certain magic number of hours like 18 hours type thinking.

Loveumagenta · 09/02/2025 17:30

Boohoo76 · 09/02/2025 15:45

I have no doubt that my current employer will be encouraging more of us to move to the UAE as they are expanding in that area. My DS1 is in year 10 so mid GCSE’s but in around 18 months I see no reason for us to stick around. Yes, we would have to pay overseas student fees for uni if he wants to come back to the UK but that could work to his advantage. An academic high achiever, English speaking with the benefit to the uni of overseas fees. What uni wouldn’t want him?!!

Show quote history

There no tax breaks in the world that would make me move to that backwards shithole, and yes I have been asked. Dubai, Qatar all the same. I told my employer I wouldn’t be going anywhere with such appalling human rights, not for any amount of money.

Wemaybebetterstrangers · 09/02/2025 17:34

This reply has been deleted

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Boohoo76 · 09/02/2025 17:36

Your choice but I don’t think the UK is morally superior. At least I wouldn’t have to worry about my DC being stabbed whilst they are at school.

Araminta1003 · 09/02/2025 20:37

UK is not “morally superior”, especially not those Oxford student union types in their cushy civil servant roles wanting to screw the bankers with disingenuous policies like this one, and instead screwing pretty much everyone over. I do not want to be dictated to by them. They should get out in the world and get a proper job! Crappy policy making will just lead to the opposite type of Government getting in the next time round and sacking the lot of them.

Original poster
ICouldBeVioletSky · 09/02/2025 23:08

Latest from The Times. Am not sure how long the sharetoken will work, I’ll try to post screenshots but the article is annoyingly full of ads and I can’t always get them to post in the right order.

Oversubscribed state schools have no room for private pupils

www.thetimes.com/article/7556c528-ac59-4e6b-ad27-9862f717593a?shareToken=978576bca5b7a248bd124f51541be61b

OP posts:
Original poster
ICouldBeVioletSky · 09/02/2025 23:10

Have tried to crop the ads but am not sure it helped!

Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2
Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2
Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2
Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2
Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2
OP posts:
Original poster
ICouldBeVioletSky · 09/02/2025 23:11

Am not sure if MN is allowing images again, if not hopefully there will be a paywall free version of the article knocking around soon.

Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2
Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2
Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2
Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2
Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2
OP posts:
LeakyRad · 10/02/2025 07:34

ICouldBeVioletSky · 09/02/2025 23:08

Latest from The Times. Am not sure how long the sharetoken will work, I’ll try to post screenshots but the article is annoyingly full of ads and I can’t always get them to post in the right order.

Oversubscribed state schools have no room for private pupils

www.thetimes.com/article/7556c528-ac59-4e6b-ad27-9862f717593a?shareToken=978576bca5b7a248bd124f51541be61b

The government had better get its magic cross-country teleporting school buses ready, eh? Grin

Wemaybebetterstrangers · 10/02/2025 08:56

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Wemaybebetterstrangers · 10/02/2025 09:08

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Shambles123 · 10/02/2025 09:38

GoldVermillion · 09/02/2025 16:27

Oh for goodness sake. All this misery about being wealthy. So hard done to.

My DH paid over 200k tax a few years ago. He was happy to do so.

Part of being part of a national community and being immensely lucky to be clever, and hard working, and healthy, and in a profession that pays well , is the idea that those who have broader shoulders give more.

As it happens we have a disabled child who is a net taker. Mid 20s, on high level pip, with social care package. He will likely never be able to work more than a few hours a week in a highly adapted role. He will have no private pension. Once we have gone he will rely on the state for support. But high earning DH isn't inherently more valuable as a person.

Yes it's important not to discourage business and innovators and risk takers, and any return to the 90 percent tax rates of the 60s would be stupid. If you feel attacked because despite all the wringing out of you financially that is happening you still earn more take home than your parents, and have enough spare dosh to pay out independent school fees, maybe you might want to reflect that you are doing ok? There's only so many range rovers a person can drive after all.

This isn't an accurate depiction of private school parents. Well done to your DH???