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"It’s not just tax. Private school fees are rising in a facilities ‘arms race’"

27 replies

GreenTeaLikesMe · 31/12/2024 05:10

It’s not just tax. Private school fees are rising in a facilities ‘arms race’

Not denying that many smaller, poorer schools are in trouble, but there appears to be a large slice of the private education market which has been really pushing the boat out where fees are concerned.

It’s not just tax. Private school fees are rising in a facilities ‘arms race’

Extracurricular pursuits from piano to polo have received big investment from the sector

https://www.ft.com/content/852bf8c5-302b-44ba-a022-79b8ac4fcb42

OP posts:
Sandylittletoes · 31/12/2024 05:54

Probably not anymore though!! Even well known big schools are ‘reducing their offering’ - that’s a quote from one of them.

Sandylittletoes · 31/12/2024 05:56

Can’t read your link. But no, it’s not just tax in the form of vat - it’s also national insurance and having to pay businesses rates.

ChanelBoucle · 31/12/2024 06:05

I can’t read the article so my apologies if I’ve misinterpreted the headline.

When we looked at schools for our dc, I was staggered by the increase in fees at my old school. I remember thinking that I wished it could just be the way it used to be, without all the flashy facilities and business departments. Just a lovely school with smaller classes and good standards of education. My parents could easily afford to send me and my siblings on two professional salaries.

I’ve thought for some time that there’s probably a good market for basic private schools without the flashy marketing, 50m swimming pools and music halls because realistically very few parents get actual value from any of the expensive frills.

wherehavealltheflowers · 31/12/2024 06:27

Yes- I think the marketing budget has increased and the 'bells and whistles'
Wine on parents evening, canapés..

Facilities so they can compete..

Fees went up considerably last year in many schools and the year before.. they have been preparing for this. The larger schools will maybe buy the smaller ones?

Many lovely small independent schools will go under. Those with lots of international students will be fine.

SheilaFentiman · 31/12/2024 08:09

Just a lovely school with smaller classes and good standards of education.

Large swimming pools notwithstanding, the running costs of the school largely comprise of teacher salaries. Facilities can often be financed by loans - which yes, need to be serviced, but that’s spread over time (and now VAT on building costs will be reclaimed).

But ultimately, fees are higher because variable costs - salaries, utilities, fuel, national insurance, pension contributions - are higher.

GreenTeaLikesMe · 31/12/2024 08:29

ChanelBoucle · 31/12/2024 06:05

I can’t read the article so my apologies if I’ve misinterpreted the headline.

When we looked at schools for our dc, I was staggered by the increase in fees at my old school. I remember thinking that I wished it could just be the way it used to be, without all the flashy facilities and business departments. Just a lovely school with smaller classes and good standards of education. My parents could easily afford to send me and my siblings on two professional salaries.

I’ve thought for some time that there’s probably a good market for basic private schools without the flashy marketing, 50m swimming pools and music halls because realistically very few parents get actual value from any of the expensive frills.

Edited

Small class sizes are literally the biggest expense though - teacher salaries dwarf everything else in a school, even flashy facilities.

The actual data on academic achievement mostly finds that small class sizes don't improve academic outcomes unless there are special educational needs.

So if we want "budget private schools," the best model would be "private secondary schools in big cities that have pleasant but basic facilities, quite large classes and a basic but not extreme entrance test," on the grounds that children who are at least average in terms of academics and behavior can cope fine in normally sized or biggish classes and this would make running a school an awful lot cheaper.

My daughter goes to a private secondary school outside the UK that is similar to this, but my experience is that UK parents tend to really like small class sizes, so not sure this model would be a big seller in the UK unless the local state secondaries are pretty bad.

OP posts:
shockeditellyou · 31/12/2024 08:39

The “budget” private school territory is well covered by good state schools- but it’s very location dependent. Edited to add: which probably explains why there’s only a limited market for that kind of private school. You can either get into a good state secondary, or you have no choice/can afford a private school, and those are now all in the arms race for facilities as their USP.

Strikeoutnow · 31/12/2024 08:42

As you say people really value smaller class sizes here. I also think where fees have increased at a considerable rate over the last decade plus, many parents are now from a narrower background eg richer. The fees aren’t an issue so lots of schools are in competition with each other. Plus birth rates in general have dropped so there are less pupils. If I was to chose a private school I would want one with all the sporting facilities because if you have access to great states that’s often the main difference.

wherehavealltheflowers · 31/12/2024 08:44

These are very good points.
If it's teacher's salaries as a main expense, can they not just get newer and therefore, cheaper teachers instead? So they still keep the class sizes small.
I think they are currently paid less than the state sector but I'm sure there are plenty of new graduates who would do the job happily for less money

Strikeoutnow · 31/12/2024 08:45

Large swimming pools notwithstanding, the running costs of the school largely comprise of teacher salaries.

and pensions which are ££££ & why some privates have come out of the TPS.

Strikeoutnow · 31/12/2024 08:51

If it's teacher's salaries as a main expense, can they not just get newer and therefore, cheaper teachers instead? So they still keep the class sizes small.
I think they are currently paid less than the state sector but I'm sure there are plenty of new graduates who would do the job happily for less money

It’s quite disruptive to have a high turnover of staff & experience does count. Plus how do you attract the best teachers as many in state schools will be moving up the pay scale each year. I was looking at a schools this autumn & one of my local ones had many teachers that have been there years. Now the wage bill must be astronomical & the funding is based on head count not teachers salaries but at a time when teaching retention is so poor it really make me think the school must be doing something right.

GreenTeaLikesMe · 31/12/2024 08:53

shockeditellyou · 31/12/2024 08:39

The “budget” private school territory is well covered by good state schools- but it’s very location dependent. Edited to add: which probably explains why there’s only a limited market for that kind of private school. You can either get into a good state secondary, or you have no choice/can afford a private school, and those are now all in the arms race for facilities as their USP.

Edited

Exactly. The option for parents with medium budgets in the UK tends to be "buy house in good catchment area and top up with tutoring." I think cheap private schools could potentially be attractive in one or two cities where population pressures result in some parents not being able to get a place in a good state secondary, but who knows.

OP posts:
exprecis · 31/12/2024 08:54

ChanelBoucle · 31/12/2024 06:05

I can’t read the article so my apologies if I’ve misinterpreted the headline.

When we looked at schools for our dc, I was staggered by the increase in fees at my old school. I remember thinking that I wished it could just be the way it used to be, without all the flashy facilities and business departments. Just a lovely school with smaller classes and good standards of education. My parents could easily afford to send me and my siblings on two professional salaries.

I’ve thought for some time that there’s probably a good market for basic private schools without the flashy marketing, 50m swimming pools and music halls because realistically very few parents get actual value from any of the expensive frills.

Edited

I agree with this.

The fees at the school I went to have gone up absolutely ridiculous amounts compared with inflation.

The class sizes are no smaller but the facilities are much much shinier.

GreenTeaLikesMe · 31/12/2024 08:55

Strikeoutnow · 31/12/2024 08:51

If it's teacher's salaries as a main expense, can they not just get newer and therefore, cheaper teachers instead? So they still keep the class sizes small.
I think they are currently paid less than the state sector but I'm sure there are plenty of new graduates who would do the job happily for less money

It’s quite disruptive to have a high turnover of staff & experience does count. Plus how do you attract the best teachers as many in state schools will be moving up the pay scale each year. I was looking at a schools this autumn & one of my local ones had many teachers that have been there years. Now the wage bill must be astronomical & the funding is based on head count not teachers salaries but at a time when teaching retention is so poor it really make me think the school must be doing something right.

Teacher quality is generally agreed to have far more impact on pupil achievement than class size. One reason why educational systems which have gone for "small class sizes" (often to appease voters, who tend to bang on about class sizes a lot in some countries) have generally ended up being disappointed with the results, is because reducing class sizes means more teachers have to be hired, so there is downward pressure on pay making it hard to attract or keep good teachers, and the barrel has to be scraped to find all the extra teachers which means accepting less good ones. You are generally far better off having great teachers with relatively large classes, than weak teachers teaching small classes.

OP posts:
Frowningprovidence · 31/12/2024 08:57

The thing about private schools is there are so many types. It's a very varied market, which is sort of the point.

I'm sure some schools are trying to differentiate on thier facilities, especially if they are taking on the international market.

I am also surprised there isn't a chain of selective schools that are cheaper with classes of 30.

I can't work out how much it would cost. State is £7440 for secondary, but with vat a parent needs to spend £8928 to get the same spent on education. Plus state schools can access extra capital funding in certain circumstances. Eg one I work at had a dodgy wall and the LA rebuilt it and the school only paid the first 3k. Whereas a private school would have to fund the whole lot. I also think most state schools dont have rent, wheras if you set up a new school you need to rent/mortgage. Plus you need a few extra staff like a billings person to chase fees. I feel like you are heading toward 12-15k. But for something with no significant difference to state other than selection.

Strikeoutnow · 31/12/2024 09:04

There is also extra money raised by parents in states through fundraising & at my dc primary I pay for extracurriculars & music tuition.

Justforfun123 · 31/12/2024 09:09

Everything costs more these days food, rent, electric, even a trip to the local swimming pool is way more expensive than it used to be. So of course a private school with a swimming pool, school meals etc will cost a lot more.

Sandylittletoes · 31/12/2024 11:51

The most cost effective thing would be to subsidise private schools so that there was less pressure on state schools. Like they do in Australia where private schools are a realistic aspiration for many.

grizzline · 31/12/2024 16:04

Don't forget that not all flash facilities are paid for out of fees. Specific fundraising and alumnus donations can be a big source of funding for one-off projects.

As for what private schools should focus their spending on, it's going to depend a lot on the local market. In an area where the state schools are generally poor, then a private school that produces good academic results might be very sought after even if it doesn't offer much else. In an area with lots of grammar schools, then it's likely that those considering private will either be looking for an academic school that also has great extra curricular facilities (if they have kids likely to get into grammar school), or a more nurturing and good all-rounder school. (if their kids aren't likely to get into grammar). As for replacing older teachers with NQTs, I'd have thought this would go down badly anywhere. Surely it's a given that you'd be looking for consistent, experienced, specialist teaching in return for your school fees, regardless of what else you're looking for?

JaffavsCookie · 31/12/2024 17:34

It also would be against employment law to remove more expensive teachers!

SheilaFentiman · 31/12/2024 17:45

JaffavsCookie · 31/12/2024 17:34

It also would be against employment law to remove more expensive teachers!

This :-)

Though a school could, I guess, give very minimal pay rises. But disgruntled teachers aren’t v appealing to parents either

wherehavealltheflowers · 01/01/2025 18:13

It's common practice in schools to remove more experienced and expensive teachers. And it's widely known about.
Very easy to do actually. I'm sure that is what will be happening if it's not already

hotfirelog · 02/01/2025 21:08

I'm near a grammar area. The private secondaries in our area do thus compete. Their facilities are all state of the art: music facilities, theatres, swimming pools, multiple types of sports fields. Long lunch breaks so all can do extra clubs and sports. Lots more after school sports and extras. State schools can compete on academics but no chance on the rest

MoonMusic · 02/01/2025 22:32

Sandylittletoes · 31/12/2024 11:51

The most cost effective thing would be to subsidise private schools so that there was less pressure on state schools. Like they do in Australia where private schools are a realistic aspiration for many.

The Assisted places scheme did this but Labour abolished it when they came into power in 1997. I went to an independent school and many of my friends had assisted places, I think around half of the year did! Once the scheme was abolished my school had to merge with two other local schools to keep going.