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Admissions consultation, Prendergast (Lewisham)

18 replies

LewishamTeacher · 20/12/2024 23:06

As is obvious from my username, I'm a teacher in Lewisham. One of the secondary schools that is popular with girls wants to change the way it selects children for the music scholarship places. Because of the age group I teach, and where I teach (just too far for girls to get in to the school on the basis of distance), the music scholarship places are a hot topic amongst families.

The consultation information is here.

The web page itself says the Trustees want 'To further develop the accessibility of the music scholarship for all.' It goes on to say the proposed change is for all applicants to sit a music aptitude test and audition (at the moment only the highest scorers in the aptitude test are invited for audition). Reading the full detail reveals the proposed change is to use audition as the main way of assessing aptitude and only using the aptitude test as a tie-breaker.

My reading of 1.32 of the Schools Admission Code (2021) is that comprehensive schools selecting a percentage of Y7 on the basis of aptitude have to use a test of aptitude, not ability/achievement as the main method (presumably so the places were accessible to children who hadn't had a chance to be formally trained in music/language/sport). I've found a couple of 2023 cases where the Office of the Schools Adjudicator has stated that auditions are a measure of musical ability or are not compliant tests of aptitude.

I haven't written to the Trustees with my feedback yet as I'd like to know if I'm barking up the wrong tree first! @prh47bridge @PanelChair @PatriciaHolm @Admissions if any of you, or other admissions gurus, have any spare brain power to let me know your thoughts I'd be very grateful!

Admissions Consultation Prendergast School - Leathersellers Federation of Schools

https://www.leathersellers-federation.com/1379/admissions-consultation-prendergast-school

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 20/12/2024 23:56

I don't think you are barking up the wrong tree. An audition is likely to be a test of achievement, not a test of aptitude. The listening assessment referred to in the draft admission arrangements is more likely to be a test of aptitude, but it seems that is only to be used as a tie breaker when candidates cannot be separated by the audition - the wording is not entirely clear (which is a problem in itself) but that appears to be the intention.

If I were you, I would respond to the consultation objecting to the use of auditions and signposting previous OSA decisions that support the view that an audition is not a test of aptitude. If that fails and the school sticks with this proposal, I think you should lodge an objection with the OSA.

GertrudeJekyllAndHyde · 21/12/2024 08:32

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

LewishamTeacher · 21/12/2024 10:58

Thank you @prh47bridge, it's useful to have another person's view on it. I'll definitely get my feedback in!

OP posts:
Wigeon · 21/12/2024 11:04

No idea about how the admissions code applies, but it might be useful to know that the South West Hertfordshire Consortium of seven semi-selective state schools includes a music test, and that has an aptitude test, followed by an audition for those who get above a certain score in the aptitude test. Then only some of those who audition get offered a place on the music criterion.

I assume this complies with the admissions code since it's been like that for many many years with this consortium, and I'm sure someone would have challenged it.

https://www.swhertsschools.org.uk/

South West Herts Schools – Consortium

https://www.swhertsschools.org.uk

LewishamTeacher · 21/12/2024 11:29

Thanks @Wigeon that sounds similar to how it's been done at this school and a couple of others locally. It seems strange that this one would want to switch to using auditions as a screening tool whilst the others locally continue to use the aptitude test.

OP posts:
wtftodo · 25/12/2024 23:40

Kingsdale do aptitude and audition for all music applicants. Including a fairly transparent breakdown of how they allocate the marks.

Hatcham college however (where lots of Prendergast applicants also apply) only offer interviews to the top 80 aptitude scorers.

I'm not sure which is better. I know kids who've got nowhere with one and come top at the other, or at Kingsdale, and vice versa. However of the kids I personally know of who have secured scholarships, while some are from less privileged backgrounds and others more so (including a lot of heavy prep and tutoring), they've all been receiving music tuition for years.

Prendergast said locally to have much more pointed questioning as part of the audition eg about the composer, genres, etc.

In truth, the "aptitude" test is itself flawed. It's strongly correlated with music tuition ie kids who've been having music lessons for years tend to score much higher. Also with iq, and with practise. Lots of kids are heavily prepped for the aptitude test as other are for the 11+; this is also correlated with a higher score.

LewishamTeacher · 27/12/2024 00:33

I'd not really looked at the detail of the Kingsdale scholarships before @wtftodo. The mark allocation explanation isn't as clear as I'd hoped it might be.

1. Two performances on the applicant’s chosen instrument(s) and/or vocal pieces: 45 marks.
2. Aural Test: 25 marks.
3. Written Musical Aptitude Tests: 30 marks.
All applicants are required to complete the above assessments [Total 100 marks].
4. Optional Sight Reading* on applicants chosen instrument(s): 20 marks.
*Based upon the outcome of this test the assessor will determine whether an applicant is competent in sight reading. Where an applicant is not deemed to be competent their marks
will be discounted and will not contribute to their overall performance score. Where this
assessment is undertaken, and the score is accepted, the total marks available will be 120.
5. Optional Specific Special Educational Needs or high attainment aptitude assessment for a designated musical instrument: a maximum of up to an additional 100 marks are available in this category. Please be advised that the optional sight reading in paragraph 4 above will be incorporated into this assessment or discounted for these applicants i.e. they will be assessed
out of a maximum mark of 200.

I'm not sure what happens with the scores of the candidates who end up having a 'high attainment aptitude assessment' but given that includes sight reading, it is surely a test of attainment rather than aptitude. What about a child who plays/sings by ear? And having a specialist assessor made available for some 'high prior attainment' candidates doesn't seem very consistent.

I was interested to read what you said about Prendergast having more pointed questioning about composers, genres etc. as I hadn't heard that. The girls I know who've had auditions there said they were asked if they had a favourite player of their instrument and if so, who it was and were asked about the sort of music they wanted to do at secondary school (I think that's what they said, I know their answer included wanting to play in a show). In at least one, the person leading the audition looked at the candidate's music and asked if she knew what a particular note was called. The candidate said something along the lines of, "I sometimes get mixed up but I think it's a G. I just work it out from what sounds right". None of the children I know who have applied to/secured a place at Prendergast or Haberdashers received any aptitude test tutoring but I'm aware there are some very active businesses over the Dulwich area that offer tuition for those tests.

OP posts:
Araminta1003 · 27/12/2024 06:58

As long as they allow voice I think it is fine. There are plenty of local churches in Lewisham with free choirs that children can join? All children in our school sang a lot in primary as well and many primaries do the young voices now.
Regular church singing and aptitude will get a child to grade 4 standard and above. They will learn dynamic contrast and telling the story of the song too. My DC learnt all of that and more from the choirmaster.

Araminta1003 · 27/12/2024 07:01

The problem for schools is not having enough children willing and able to do GCSE Music and beyond without the music aptitude and participation in the orchestras/choirs. Seeing that a Grade 9 in GCSE music pretty much requires achievement at Grade 5 standard and above, I am not sure how to get around this. If you want Music in the school to continue, the music aptitude scholarships may be important. The only thing to do is to compare to all other London music aptitude tests.
The Kingsdale sightreading is voluntary and has no impact on outcome. They are graded out of a different total, IF they opt to do sightreading.

Araminta1003 · 27/12/2024 07:16

Why is an audition necessarily a measure of achievement? Because if a Grade 8 pianist plays through a piece at audition very mechanically versus a church singer sings a Grade 2 piece very beautifully and really makes it come alive and is then selected over the Grade 8 pianist? So I would say it is a question of how the criteria are applied. If they simply make the audition based on how well the candidate plays or sings at their own level, I cannot see an issue with it. If anything, it may be to get around the increasing tendency of people to tutor/pratise for the actual aptitude tests? Again, the interview questions are not a question of knowledge of the DCs but their genuine passion for music. As long as they do not expect a child to be limited to classical music and eg the oboe etc then again, I do not see an issue. The more ways they allow the children to perform or show case surely the more they can get to the bottom of actual innate talent vs tutored/background push? Some of the boys we know with extraordinary percussion talent are somewhat self taught, for example.

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 27/12/2024 17:31

Every school we did music aptitude tests for had a different system - the most popular being MAT with the top x number being asked back to a live audition.

My guess is that the school have found that they're not getting a great balance of different instruments (not exactly ideal for your ensembles and orchestras if all your music places go to singers and pianists), or that people are put off applying by an unknown test, or that they're not actually picking up the kids who are genuinely really interested in music (rather than parents who are really interested in getting a school place).

I'm not convinced MAT is that great for those without a degree of music training either. We never tutored for MAT but I have seen there are tutors offering this in the area - and imo it's definitely one that tutoring would give a definite advantage. DD was highly trained - 4 instruments and was already G6/7 in her first study - but she's also extremely musical, so it would have been odd if she hadn't done well in the aptitude tests. I don't think you can necessarily separate aptitude, ability and achievement. Even more so with something subjective like music.

It was very clear to DD that some of the schools she sat for only really wanted classical musicians or only wanted orchestral instruments. She does neither and has zero interest in being anything other than a soloist. Two schools actually asked if she would be prepared to take up the oboe if she was offered a place!

We were offered a number of music places - including several of the schools mentioned above - and went for the one that had had the most comprehensive assessment as DD felt she understood more about the offer and had had a proper chance to chat to the department. Music department has been everything we hoped for and more.

One thing DD's school does is keep the music places as an option for those in the school. So you can go along in Y8 or Y9 or whatever and apply and if you get a high enough score then you get all the scholarship benefits (free tuition etc). It is also compulsory for scholars to take GCSE Music, so they have one of the biggest music departments in the country as a result.

LewishamTeacher · 28/12/2024 00:34

@Araminta1003 there's no information about the proposed audition criteria which makes it harder to ascertain if it's achievement or aptitude being assessed. You're absolutely right about it being possible for a grade 8 pianist to be outperformed by a singer whose training has come solely from singing in the church choir. I know of girls who've gained a scholarship to the school having only ever sung at church/school but they were only auditioned because of their scores on the MAT.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow the proposed change isn't to do with getting a balance of instruments; the proposal has come from the trustees without the involvement of the music department at the school.

Whilst trying to find out about schools that audition all candidates for musical aptitude scholarships I came across the Gilberd School in Essex that holds an improvisation workshop as part of the assessment process. It seems to be this way because of a decision by the OSA that whilst a prepared performance (as happens in a traditional audition) demonstrates prior attainment or skill, a group workshop assessing rhythm and
rhythmic improvisation and melody and melodic improvisation requires no previous training or experience. That school also seems to only permit candidates from within a specific geographical area to apply for music aptitude places which I thought was interesting. I don't know how many girls who've secured music scholarships at Prendergast have applied to all the London schools that offer music places as those I'm aware of all live within walking distance of the school albeit not close enough to get in on distance.

It's a shame the trustees haven't said more about what they're trying to achieve. If they've discovered most of the music places are going to girls who are travelling across London so want to look at ways of more local girls securing the places, perhaps there are ways that could be achieved. If it's because they've got data showing girls eligible for Pupil Premium/who are young carers/for whom English isn't a first language don't apply to sit the MAT, I expect that could be sorted by running the MAT in all Lewisham primary schools so all Y6 girls can sit it during the school day if they wish (this is how the Bexley tests are run in most Bexley primary schools). This would definitely make it more accessible for lots of the girls I teach as their families don't always find it easy to coordinate attendance at multiple banding tests, MATs etc. during the week and the Saturday MAT is a complication many of those with zero hours jobs or younger children could do without.

OP posts:
Araminta1003 · 28/12/2024 08:59

https://www.wilsons.school/music-programme/
“Please note that no part of the Music Aptitude Test requires any familiarity with music theory or other previous musical knowledge.
One element that candidates will need to prepare in advance is a solo performance. Candidates will need to prepare a short performance on their preferred instrument or voice. Candidates will then work with an assessor, responding to their instructions and suggestions, to develop their singing or playing of their piece.”

This is another way of doing it - test how the candidate responds and just get them to play a very short piece or sing, on one instrument only.
This highly selective school will have a ton of kids on grade 5-8 piano and other instruments so they really have to gage where the actual talent & enthusiasm lies. An experienced music teacher would be able to tell.

Araminta1003 · 28/12/2024 09:01

“We were offered a number of music places - including several of the schools mentioned above - and went for the one that had had the most comprehensive assessment as DD felt she understood more about the offer and had had a proper chance to chat to the department. Music department has been everything we hoped for and more.”

@LewishamTeacher - I do think this is a relevant point if the aim is to attract some of the very best children. Remember they are 10/11 already and those who have really committed to their instruments/voice and are very passionate about this will also be assessing you back and will be getting a ton of offers from all schools they will have applied to.

Araminta1003 · 28/12/2024 09:03

I do not want to out myself so I won’t name our state primary school but we have a strong head of music and close collaboration with instrumental teachers and excellent choirs and they do also keep a list of the gifted and talented kids in music. This is all led by the one teacher so I think a collaborative approach with all the local primary schools and also encouraging links with local churches for singing is always good.

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 28/12/2024 09:31

Araminta1003 · 28/12/2024 09:03

I do not want to out myself so I won’t name our state primary school but we have a strong head of music and close collaboration with instrumental teachers and excellent choirs and they do also keep a list of the gifted and talented kids in music. This is all led by the one teacher so I think a collaborative approach with all the local primary schools and also encouraging links with local churches for singing is always good.

This is very true.

DD’s central London state primary had a musician-in-residence, offered lots of different instruments, school choir, loads of masterclasses often at the Southbank Centre, Globe Theatre etc. It had a performing arts specialism and was definitely very focused on music, drama, art and dance for all their students.

LewishamTeacher · 28/12/2024 11:22

@Araminta1003 I like the sound of the Wilsons music communication assessment. Given boys have to pass two academic selection tests before being eligible to sit the music aptitude test, I imagine accessibility is unlikely to be a major concern for the school. There are a couple of other interesting things within the Wilson's admissions policy (unrelated to music).

My feeling about the Prendergast music scholarship is that they're not really looking to recruit some of 'the very best children' but to offer an opportunity to those who would benefit from a small, nurturing music department. Music scholars are encouraged to take GCSE music (but don't have to) and are expected to join either the orchestra or the choir - there don't seem to be lots of other ensembles on offer. Whilst I don't know any girls who've applied for lots of music scholarships, I can't help but feel as though those who are in a position to choose from multiple scholarship offers probably doesn't need a music place at Prendergast as much as someone who has fewer options open to them.

OP posts:
Araminta1003 · 28/12/2024 12:13

@LewishamTeacher - it’s one Sutton wide SET test boys need to pass before sitting the music aptitude test. Plenty of boys pass the music aptitude but don’t then pass Stage 2 of the Wilson’s test. They passed something like 130 for music aptitude this year alone. Lots of boys give it a go because it is aptitude primarily they are looking for as they have a thriving music department and I believe a pretty new music block.
If you want music to become a large part of the school then you aim to get some of the best as they are then a role model for other students. From there the reputation grows and then you get kids eventually coming in to do plenty of eg A level music too. I am not sure there is another way with things like art and music. Kingsdale, for example, has the advantage of cohort size as well. I really do not believe music or art has to be elitist- far from it. It is also a great way to introduce world music from lots of different cultures. Ensembles and groups grow with teacher and Sixth Form enthusiasm. A lot of kids will enjoy playing eg the Hans Zimmer and adapted musical stuff.

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