Faith Schools as non-beliver

[Appleberrybloom]

Looking for people's experience of sending children to a c of e primary as a non-beliver. We really like this school in every other way but are not of a Christian faith.

What do your children think to the faith elements in school? How big of a deal is it?

How common is no faith in c of e schools?

How religious a school is, is more down to the HT than the name on the door. All state schools in the UK are supposed to have a daily act of worship of a broadly christian nature. In practice this has a very wide interpretation.

You can have CofE schools that do little more than the odd prayer, nativity play and trip to church for carols or harvest festival.

Then you can have non-denominational schools with an evangelical HT that 'do GOD' in a big way.

You are more likely to have more religious content in cities where the church schools can fill their places from the faithful - baptism certificates, letters from the priest to say you turn up x times a month etc, and Roman Catholic schools are likely to be more religious than CofE.

Outside urban areas, it's almost default that the local primary is CofE and nobody will care if you believe or not, and the vast majority of parents will be hatch/match/dispatch at best.

You can withdraw your child from the religious bits, but it's a bit of a faff and most of us come out the other side happy non-believers but knowing the words to Christmas carols.

Main thing is check how religious THAT school is and if you can deal with it.

I'm as atheist as you get without being Richard Dawkins, and DH is of a different faith group (and atheist) and we were happy enough with DD at a CofE school that was very low key on the religious stuff. I did refuse to sign the parts in the school contract that promised I would support and encourage her faith (just put a line through those sections) and nobody ever said anything.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow thanks so much for your response, I didn't realise how much faith can be a part of the daily routine at non c of e schools.

I did ask at the open day regarding how much of a faith based element there is and they explained there is worship and prayer each day which did throw me a bit but ultimately, it sounded like an assembly with a hymn and a school prayer at the end once the head explained.

I don't disagree with the Christian values the school base itself on, just don't actually belive in a God. We love the school otherwise and think perhaps we should put the C of E element aside.

A c of e faith school will most likely have a church and its vicar attached who will come in and take assemblies occasionally. My friend is one, and she welcomes the children on visits to church for harvest, christingle, nativity plays etc. The rest of the school day is pretty standard.

My daughter once ran up to said vicar (she is used to seeing her on Sundays and knows that we are friends) and said hello Rev XXX, mummy told daddy that you like wine.

I went to a C of E VA school, these are 'ultra' religious as they're funded by the church. As long as you're respectful of the faith aspects it should be ok. We had daily prayers & hymns, weekly visits from the vicar, every Christian celebration was celebrated at the church.

My dc went to the local C of E school. It was a 'VA' school, bit unlike PPs experience was not ultra religious at all. The demographic here is very multi cultural though, and I'd be surprised if even 50% of the children are from Christian families.

As @OhCrumbsWhereNow says, it will totally depend on the head teacher. In our area almost all primary schools, and certainly all of the ones we had a chance of getting into, are CofE. I went in with an open mind (as an atheist at home) and was appalled by the heavy handed approach to religious education given this was the only realistic option for children in our area. I have no objection to exposing dc to religion and quite comfortable discussing differences in home vs, school / society, but at this school there was very much a sense that you couldn’t be a good person if you weren’t Christian. For a number of unrelated reasons we moved school to another religiously affiliated school and the approach is totally different - much more open minded, deeper exploration of different belief systems, greater focus on ethics than religious dogma. My children are still exposed to an unsettling level of religious education, but I feel like their new school leaves more room for families to contextualise and reinterpret.

Thanks for all the responses and sharing your experiences. Fortunately I think this c of e is very aware of different and no faiths and just embraces the wider religious messages rather than practicing Christianity in a strict and traditional sense. Good to hear people's thoughts. Thanks.

@Appleberrybloom we are atheists and sent our boys to a CofE school because we liked it, and because it was our closest school, next to a lovely green space where families hung out and socialised after school. In other words, we sent them there in spite of the faith ethos, rather than because of it. We spoke openly with the boys about our own world views and encouraged them to ask us questions. We told them that while not everyone agrees about religion, its important to listen respectfully to other people's views. We said they would probably decide about their own views when they were older, and it's fine to change their mind in the meantime. Both of them decided they didn't believe in God around about the same time that they decided they didn't believe in Santa Clause. Many of their classmates did the same. I think this process was good for their critical thinking skills. They are 18 and 20 now, and still look back on their primary school days with fondness, and some amusement.

Most of my atheist DS’s classmates weren’t from C of E backgrounds — some Muslim, some Hindu, a couple of Sikhs and Catholics. The school was lovely and took a ‘here is what different people believe’ approach to religion. The only issue was that a new vicar took over the parish when DS was in Year 1, and was an evangelical Biblical literalist, which DS found deeply weird, that a grownup with three teenage daughters was attempting to get him to believe God made the universe in seven days. I’d take a look at the local vicar, and see how involved in the school he or she is.

I went to a CofE school in the 1980s. There was a fair dose of God and we all had to give the vicar reverence, plus there was the visit to Church every Easter and Christmas (I liked making Christingles) but that was about it. Mum didn't have a choice, it was the village school and to send us anywhere else meant a lengthy drive to the nearest town.

We're all agnostic or atheist now.

Where we are the only choice is CofE (except for one Catholic school a couple of villages over) so everyone goes to a CofE school. It's completely down to the head - some are just typical low-key CofE village schools with hymns and prayers and RE and the vicar popping in once a term to run an assembly, but there are one or two locally that have been 'infiltrated' by happy-clappy types and have gone all evangelical - it seems to be quite the thing for young evangelical men (it's always some 27 year-old bloke) to be fast-tracked into leadership positions in infants/primary schools. That's not great when it's the only school in the village and should cater for all faiths and none.

Does anyone seriously believe that there is any risk of kids being religiously indoctrinated at CofE schools in the UK in the 21st century? I attended Catholic schools for all of my schooling years, but I doubt things were/are much different. Apart from RE we had mass once a month and charity collections around town throughout the year. I would say that by 12/13 y/o most were unbelievers and just saw these things as an excuse to get out of lesson.
Now that I look back (n.b I only left school in 2013) I could say that the RE wasn’t very encompassing of other views/religions, but it was hardly insidious, or if it was supposed to be it definitely wasn’t successful.

I have worked in catholic high schools which are very religious (young ultra religious leadership teams). Prayer at the start of every lesson, daily chapel (chapel in school) etc.

Sounds like you're getting one of the more low key ones OP.

Do watch out if you get a new head teacher though as everything can change. And keep an eye open for creationism creeping in - surprising how often that happens.

FWIW, secondary the only mention of religion has been in RE lessons, it's as secular as it's possible to be without going stupidly the other direction (nobody has tried to abolish the mention of Christmas for example but it's more Xmas jumper day rather than anything religious).

Yes - although not necessarily at the CofE ones.

I used to sit on the local SACRE as the Humanist/Atheist member (I didn't get a vote, but the various religious representatives were rather pleased to have a non believer show up and ask to join as it's not usual).

There were some rather dubious goings on in a few schools (CofE and nondom) that were being funded/organised by the evangelical right in the USA. Creationism being the worst in the guise of teaching Intelligent Design and that Evolution is a merely a theory that should be discredited. All prettily packaged and initially very innocuous looking.

If you look at the admissions criteria you can generally work out how focused on religion the school will be.
Some schools will have a faith based intake as low as 20 percent, so in a two form entry school that's 12 children.
if a school expects the children to call the vicar "father", it would be a no from me.

@Appleberrybloom Another thing worth checking is the school's SIAMS inspection report. It's additional.to the Ofsted report, but with the inspection body being the CofE. My boys' lovely school had a SIAMS inspection shortly before DS2 left. It said all was goog except that there wasn't enough CofE symbolism around the school 🙄. So they introduced a big cross in the assembly hall, and little crosses in the classrooms, and changed the photo on the front of the school website to show all the kids at a church service rather than playing in the playground. I'm sure it didn't change the ethos of the school materially, but probably just puts off more non-CofE families from applying, which is a shame.

As a faith school we have Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, JWs, Quakers and all versions in between and those of no faith. The requirement is to learn about faiths, what we all share and what is different and be able to talk about it.
We cover two religions a year.

We host celebrations throughout the year, and faith leaders from various faiths share their beliefs and what they mean to them. SIAMS inspections expect children to be able to speak and be proud of their faith and heritage.
As they get older, they are expected to plan and present assemblies.
Some assemblies are religious, perhaps based on a narrative and others might be about keeping safe, school ideas, plans, visits, voice of the child. a presentation, awards, multicultural events, etc

Manners, honesty, respect, consideration, values, love, kind hands, kind words,
Kind deeds, helping others and empathy etc are universal qualities regardless of faith that make us better people.

If a child does not want to join in, they can sit quietly.
This is my experience of many faith and none faith schools

Given that all British schools are supposed to have a certain level of religious observance and we are one of the least religiously observant countries in the world, I wouldn’t worry too much about it. It seems to work a bit like vaccination against religion. What makes the difference is what you do at home.